TY Mono Larger Airbox

[gadget1]

Hi

Can any one tell me where i may get a Larger capacity airbox for my TY.

Many Thanks

Ian

[hughesy]

Judging by your posts you've been reading a certain Classic publication

I think I'm right in saying that the larger airbox were a Japanese Modification (Kato) and they are like the proverbial Rocking Horse poo, I did see one on ebay a couple of years ago and I lost out, as I fancy one too.

Just keep you're eye on ebay or try a bike breakers but even in the day they weren't that common, none of the Mitsui bikes ran them.

Rosey who posts on here may know better than me on this as he was riding for Mitsui Hamilton Yamaha back in the day.

Edited November 24, 2011 by Hughesy

[rosey]

Hughesy is correct.

Assuming you have an R type air box top (two long slots with rubber strap holding it in)then the airbox is up to the job... bit of tape round the back end of airbox to frame (the frame cross member where rear mudguard mount is) to stop crud getting in is ok too!

Clean the carb a lot and filter just about after every ride (its the easiest filter to clean and easiest carb to clean too!)

If you want to chuck money at it get the inlet shortened. Not sure who does this now.

There are a lot of other mods that can be done, bigger cc (not that much difference). Decent tailpipe...YAM trialsport were great, but they are history now. Maybe somebody makes something similar?

I could go on, but most of the rest of the things were tweaks and personal preference.

If your bike is in general good fettle, make sure all the contact points are good (bars levers grips footpegs) then spend the 'big airbox money' on petrol and enjoying it

[herbie]

Judging by your posts you've been reading a certain Classic publication

I think I'm right in saying that the larger airbox were a Japanese Modification (Kato) and they are like the proverbial Rocking Horse poo, I did see one on ebay a couple of years ago and I lost out, as I fancy one too.

Just keep you're eye on ebay or try a bike breakers but even in the day they weren't that common, none of the Mitsui bikes ran them.

Rosey who posts on here may know better than me on this as he was riding for Mitsui Hamilton Yamaha back in the day.

When I got my Pinky converted to 270cc the only mod I had done to the airbox was to get a small piece of wood to prize open the airbox lid. This was a recommended mod by Birkett who sent me the recommendation after doing the 270 convertion and shortening the inlet. The piece of wood was, if I recall correctly, as long as the width of the the airbox and had two slots on its underside for it to locate on the top edges of the airbox. It was also circa 10mm high, thereby "prizing" the lid some 10mm up at the front. Hope this makes sense! Although there may well have been a "proper" Japanese alternative airbox, I don't recall the Hamilton bikes of David Page, or even Mick Andrews having such boxes.

Edited November 25, 2011 by Herbie

[twistandnogo]

Hmmmm, this is rather interesting for me. Apologies if you think I am hijacking this thread but I believe my post is relevant and may save me creating a new TC topic as I was considering doing.

I'm a Senior Lecturer in the Mechanical Engineering section at a UK University and have this year set a final year undergradute project on this general subject. I have asked a student to investigate the application and use of modern Reverse Engineering equipment (we have contact and also non contact laser based systems available) in the context of classic trials bikes. We have a view to identifying a couple of suitable components and carrying out case studies of them including gathering the geometric data with a view to developing a CAD model and then manufacturing a prototype (potentially through the use of of our Rapid Prototyping systems if appopriate).

This is purely an academic exercise to demonstrate the suitability (or otherwise) of such RE and RP techniques to reproduce items that may no longer be available and is not a commercial venture looking to produce and sell products.

The student has carried out some market research into what classic trials bikes are around, and what components are available, including conversations with some retailers/restorers.

The project student was rather struggling when we met yesterday so I suggested that one case study item suitable may be a Mono airbox for several reasons - bikes sold, geometry, material, dimensions etc. (also I have a pinky in bits in the garage!).

So in short, I am not very familar with the classic scene and magazines as alluded to in one reply (although I have been riding on/off since the 80's) and have not seen any modifications to these airboxes other than the opening of the lid as mentioned. However, if anyone could describe any improvements to the actual airbox it may be that we could for our study reproduce the original and then an improved modified version that may further evidence and justify the use of such techniques and enhance the project activities, then that would be much appreciated.

Likewise, if anybody could suggest any other possible unobtainable components for classic bikes that would also be most useful and welcome.

Thank you for any help anyone may be able to provide to the educational experience of one of our undergraduates, it would be much appreciated (and I do hope to convert him to trials from his superbike!).

Edited December 28, 2011 by Twistandnogo

[shedco]

A discussion on this item along with a couple of pictures

http://www.trials.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3696&start=20

[rosey]

Shedco, I Couldn't be a***d to read that in detail, but it seems like people really are chasing shadows. However, if they enjoy doing it then thats great.

Fitting

[mattylad]

Rosey,

In your opinion what is the right way to go in developing a mono?

[feetupfun]

Hmmmm, this is rather interesting for me. Apologies if you think I am hijacking this thread but I believe my post is relevant and may save me creating a new TC topic as I was considering doing.

I'm a Senior Lecturer in the Mechanical Engineering section at a UK Univeristy and have this year set a final year undergradute project on this general subject. I have asked a student to investigate the application and use of modern Reverse Engineering equipment (we have contact and non contact laser systems available) in the context of classic trials bikes. We have a view to identifying a couple of suitable components and carrying out case studies of them including gathering the geometric data with a view to developing a CAD model and then manufacturing a prototype (potentially though the use of of our Rapid Prototyping systems if appopriate).

This is purely an academic exercise to demonstrate the suitability (or otherwise) of such RE and RP techniques to reproduce items that may no longer be available and is not a commercial venture looking to produce and sell products.

The student has carried out some market research into what classic trials bikes are around, and what components are available, including conversations with some retailers/restorers.

The project student was rather struggling when we met yesterday so I suggested that one case study item suitable may be a Mono airbox for several reasons - bikes sold, geometry, material, dimensions etc. (also I have a pinky in bits in the garage!).

So in short, I am not very familar with the classic scene and magazines as alluded to in one reply (although I have been riding on/off since the 80's) and have not seen any modifications to these airboxes other than the opening of the lid as mentioned. However, if anyone could describe any improvements to the actual airbox it may be that we could for our study reproduce the original and then an improved modified version that may further evidence and justify the use of such techniques and enhance the project activities, then that would be much appreciated.

Likewise, if anybody could suggest any other possible unobtainable components for classic bikes that would also be most useful and welcome.

Thank you for any help anyone may be able to provide to the educational experience of one of our undergraduates, it would be much appreciated (and I do hope to convert him to trials from his superbike!).

Replacement (unobtainable) magneto covers for Yamaha TY250 twinshock or TY175 Twinshock bikes would probably be suitable parts for the case study although they would be less of a challenge than a one-piece airbox.

[baldilocks]

Best way to develop an air cooled yam is actually to sell yours and buy the one Roger Williams rode in the SSDT this year.

I rode it in a club trial recently, although it feels top heavy compared to a modern bike once you adjust to this its fantastic to ride.

Capacity may be 262 as birks did the motor, Roger then fitted a Keihin PWK 28 carb, this thing revs to the moon but still has torque. It has the std air filter box. Roger also got Ohlins to build a shock, rear suspension is as good as anything else I have ridden. Footrests are lower and look further back and the bike has a tubeless rim. Finally Birks made a shirty style tail pipe.

I dread to think what it cost but it is superb.

[rosey]

Baldilocks,

It would be interesting to see if the carb made a differenc, but I've never ridden a TY as good as the the Mick Andrews modded TY's of old. They were torquey and revved well, just that the bike was more 'laid back' than other bikes in the early 90's.

I can see the logic with lowering the footpegs (and lifting the bars too?), although not moving them back, still its personal preference.

Mattylad, I've got to say though unless you want to make an old style bike into a new style bike for fun (and there is nothing wrong with that) there is no sense in developing a mono Yam. Although you could say thats what all the other manufacturers have done over the last 20 years

[herbie]

...but I've never ridden a TY as good as the the Mick Andrews modded TY's of old. They were torquey and revved well, just that the bike was more 'laid back' than other bikes in the early 90's.

That's my recollection too, Paul. With both Mick and Birks developing these bikes over such a long period and with such a large team, as the Hamilton Team was, I guess that 99% of the development that was to be done, particularly with the engine, was achieved back then. OK, Trials and riding styles have moved on in 20 years, but to such such a degree that would make that development obsolete? I doubt it.

One bike I do remember which was right at the VERY end of the Hamilton line of TYR's was one that "Wee Pagey" rode which Mick was developing. I don't know if any of the rest of your team tried that or similar configurations, but I recall is was a short stroke version - around 230CC? I remember this being a "stop gap" before the TYZ came out to try and give the TYR a snappier more "modern" response. Not sure if David ever rode that version in anger but I certainly remember him riding around on it at his home. If someone is wanting to make their TYR's engine behave in a "more modern way" then I guess this might be something to look into.

If I were ever to get another TYR, then I would want it to the spec of Mick's bikes. The 270 I had with shortened inlet was just so soft and just kept pulling liked a tractor (in a nice way). Nothing compared to today's machine and still outdated at the time, but for a TYR - LOVELY - and great for belting along the roads at the Scottish!

[baldilocks]

Rosey

I'll check with Roger if his is 262 or 250, if its 250 I doubt porting whould have made a huge difference so i'd think probably the carb.

Herbie

David Page did ride that bike at a centre trial in the lake district. After the trial he thought the bike was pretty good as he had cleaned every section he would have thought you needed a 270 for. Shirty and birks have also built short stroke 250's not sue what the actual cc was ? David Pages bike had the barrel base skimmed to compensate for the shorter crank. The top of the crankcase on the clutch side had to be filed to give enough cleareance on the carb bowl.

in a strange coincidence Roger Williams bought a short stroke air cooled Yam with a modified linkage off Ernie Page and rode it for about a year. Probably the same bike ?

[roester]

A larger airbox was on eBay a couple of months ago - might be wrong but I think it was Nick Draper selling it - don't know if it sold. How old is your mono Yam? The early ones didn't breathe as well. In 1988 the White frame model was much improved with a better air box, and improved silencer and carb settings. The exhaust system is really important, as with most bikes. The packing needs to be good in the middle box and the silencers make quite a difference. The 'YAM' ones are good.

I have got Nigel Birkett chatting about mono Yams a number of times and it is always fascinating. He said to me the other year that the main reason the mono Yam became uncompetitive at British Championship level in the 1990s was its weight. At the time the engine didn't hold it back for some top riders as it could be modified to suit rider preference to quite an extent- it could even be fairly quick revving and a real screamer if that was what you wanted. Shirty also built some more modern style engines including a 330 which was based on the TY350 but the bore and stroke were changed to produce about 342cc. It was ridden by Tony Scarlet and Gerald Richardson in world rounds. Mind you, however the Yam was modded it never did suit everyone.

My personal preference has always been for Mick Andrews modified engines - more grippy than a modern bike at the bottom end and with real torque but the ability to rev hard at the top end. They are totally deceptive and with a dip of the clutch will take off up pretty big steps whilst also firing up big hills and yet being able to find grip on the whiff of a throttle that few other bikes could achieve ( yes, I'm biased!). I guess trials bikes are very personal things but I love this set up. Despite having ridden them for 25 years though, when I jump on a Yam after a modern bike they always feel awful. Half an hour later I'm starting to remember how to ride them and after a couple of hours I've cleaned 90 percent of what I could on a modern bike. Muddy cambers and slick roots are easier.

I believe that a decent Yam with good period modifications with weight trimmed wherever possible is still far better than most people would think these days. The trouble is that most Yams out there, because they are so tough, have been worn out to within an inch of their lives and are hard work and expensive to bring back up to their best. Mind you, that is all part of the fun!

Edited December 3, 2011 by Roester

[bluenorth]

http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr284/always5s/004.jpg[/img][/img]

Hey Rosey I came across these, they move the bars forward about 2" and up about 2", makes a world of difference for me being a taller guy

Edited December 5, 2011 by bluenorth