al_orange Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 (edited) Hi, I know this has been discussed a lot but I'm not sure my problem is the normal thing - it's a 2001 which I THINK doesn't have the problem covers. 2001 Rev 3 270. The gear oil is WHITE - I know "milky" is used to describe this but it's more like dulux paint! I don't have a photo but it was like milk or white paint. I drained and refilled, ran for a few miinutes and the oil is white again. I've seen that the water pump cover etc. can cause problems so I've drained the coolant and opened the WP cover. The coolant is full of little bits of coating/paint from the engine cases but is still a good colour: If it was the head gasket, wouldn't the coolant be contamintated with oil? The water pump cover and case look like this (peeling coating): Does anyone think that's enough damage to cause the problem? I'm going to change the WP seal anyway as I've knocked it about to see if it was ok. Can the seal be changed from the outside or does the case have to come off too? Can I just rip the old one out and push the new one back in place? Also - where on earth can you get circlip pliers that fit the Impeller Circlip! Any help appreciated - I'm pretty happy with the bike but it needs a LOT of TLC before it's a good runner. Thanks. Edited December 4, 2011 by Al_Orange Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liviob Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 (edited) If you didnt put white oil in it than the oil has been contaminated by coolent water. Most likely your problem is caused by the seal. The cases can leak too if there is enough decay. They are magnesium and you do have some kind of decay there. Cant tell if you have a hole or not from the picture. I removed the snap ring with a cheap snap ring plier from the local auto parts store. The impeller shaft seal can be pulled out by poking a sharp object into it and pulling on it. Grease the new seal with water proof grease and carefully press it back in with a deep socket that is the same OD as the seal. Edited December 4, 2011 by Liviob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pindie Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 Sounds like a water oil mixing issue. I have not seen in there before. What is all the peeling balck/grey coating? Factory finish or a previous "fix"? It should not go milky after a couple of minutes. there is an issue somewhere. Good luck. Some one with knowledge wil be along soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02-apr Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 Sounds like a water oil mixing issue. I have not seen in there before. What is all the peeling balck/grey coating? Factory finish or a previous "fix"? It should not go milky after a couple of minutes. there is an issue somewhere. Good luck. Some one with knowledge wil be along soon. I would think that unless you take the side casing off and fully drain the oil then there will be enough contaminated residue to turn the new stuff white (I've had the same). Believe me you don't want to take the side case off if you can avoid it as the sump guard is a job and a half to replace. Put something cheap in it and drain it a couple of times to get rid of the white residue. But you may find the impeller shaft needs replaced if the seal has worn a groove in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_orange Posted December 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 (edited) If you didnt put white oil in it than the oil has been contaminated by coolent water. Is that a serious suggestion? The oil was so white and consistent that i did wonder if it was meant to be! Have i jumped the gun and got upset about nothing? The oil was as I got it from the previous owner. There's definitely no holes in the case, just a finish that is flaking off. I've pretty much got to replace the seal now but otherwise everything looked fine. I doubt the flaking is a previous fix as the previous owner didn't exactly look after it. What's the cheapest acceptable fluid that i can flush the transmission with, do you think? Thanks for the help, I'm dying to get out on this thing. Once I've sorted this the fork seals are next....then repack and seal the exhaust... Then beat the sump guard back into place.... Then the mot.... Then the insurance.... Then the tax.. lol Edited December 4, 2011 by Al_Orange Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patriot56 Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 Just had the same problem 2 week ago with my Gas Gas. Took the water pump off and removed the seal and impeller shaft, the seal didn't look bad at first glance but then I noticed a tear. Also the impeller shaft had a nice groove it from the seal. Replaced them both along with the O ring, flushed the oil and coolant about 3 times, running the bike for about 5 minutes between flushes just to be sure I got it all cleaned out. I've ridden 3 times since without issue. Not sure if that helps much but hope it does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liviob Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 Is that a serious suggestion? The oil was so white and consistent that i did wonder if it was meant to be! Have i jumped the gun and got upset about nothing? The oil was as I got it from the previous owner. LOL! Yes, but it wasnt meant to attack your intelligence. Sorry if you read it that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_orange Posted December 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 LOL! Yes, but it wasnt meant to attack your intelligence. Sorry if you read it that way. No, not at all! I would be very pleased if it was "white oil"!! I know people put all sorts of things in the trans so god knows... UPDATE - Anyway, I've taken the inner clutch cover off and removed the water pump shaft etc. The bearings did have a bit of play in them and the shaft was shiny under the seal (more so than worn). The cases looked pretty good considering the age. I'm hoping it's not the cases but just the bearings. I've bought replacement parts for the whole water pump except for the gear and pin. From the looks of it, I don't think it's first time it's been done as apart from the play in the bearings it all looks pretty good in there. I'm just hoping there's not too much damage to the gearbox etc. I've got some "mineral ATF" that I could use to flush the transmission - would that be a good or bad idea? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neils on wheels Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 [/size] Does anyone think that's enough damage to cause the problem? Al, Yesterday I replaced the inner clutch cover on my 2008 Beta, which has been standing for a while. The inner lip of the 'P' shaped seal groove was corroded away to the point that coolant leaked past the rubber seal. I cannot post a picture since I have already disposed of the old case. However no coolant had passed the impeller shaft seal to mix with the gearbox oil. From the picture you have posted & your description of milky oil, yours does not appear to have this problem, but a different one of coolant entering the gearbox oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pindie Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 You should find that as long as no pitting of bearing surfaces has taken place lots of change will cure it once the leak has gone. I believe the only oil not to use in the box is anything with anti friction additives in (read the bottle). Several changes of ATF will certainly get the milky stuff out. See if you can get the box warm to hot as well by doing a couple of road miles, this will help evaporate any other moisture. If a few changes does not cure it you really do have a leak somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_orange Posted December 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 You should find that as long as no pitting of bearing surfaces has taken place lots of change will cure it once the leak has gone. I believe the only oil not to use in the box is anything with anti friction additives in (read the bottle). Several changes of ATF will certainly get the milky stuff out. See if you can get the box warm to hot as well by doing a couple of road miles, this will help evaporate any other moisture. If a few changes does not cure it you really do have a leak somewhere. Cheers guys. I'm hoping it will be the water pump shaft bearings. Everything else looks pretty good really. I've got lots of ATF and fresh coolant to flush everything out once it's back together, so at least I'll be starting from a clean page. Where else could it get in the transmission?? I guess the worst case would be if there was a crack in the case somehere that could let the coolant into the transmission. I don't know the coolant circuit very well but does it even cool the transmission at all or is it just cylinder? Anyway, better not speculate until the easier stuff is ruled out. One thing that I'm pleased about is how simple the bike is to work on! Except the multitude of different size and type of bolt heads they seem to use.... I was bored today but eager to get on so I've started stripping it down more. Sorted out the exhaust (ready for re-packing and new seals), airbox, sub frame and will takle the shock and forks once the engine is back together. At this rate I might not be riding for a while. Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_orange Posted December 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 (edited) UPDATE - I've replaced: Water pump impeller Impeller shaft Bearings Seal Inner clutch gasket The bearings went in ok but the seal itself was an absolute pig! It's not 100% flush with the recess so I guess I'll be doing it again before long. It should hold up long enough to know if it was the culprit. Judging by the state of one of the bearings, I'm guessing it was (one of the rubber seals in the bearing had come out and there was loads of play in it). I flushed with 3 changes of ATF and it looks a lot better so far. Unfortunately, I can't take it for a long run as I live in an estate and it's not road leagal so I just putt around the close for a bit so I don't annoy the neighbours toooo much. Flushed out the collant with de-ionised water a couple of times and refilled with proper stuff. Will have to see what happens! Was a quite straight forward job so it's worth doing yourself - just makesure you research how to put seals in properly. Also - I've learned all about the kick-start mechanism because I'd managed to knock the spring out of the shaft, so when I tried to turn the engine over, the kickstarter wouldn't spring back - very alarming at first, but easy to sort once I'd removed the cover again. doh. Edit - oh, I also replaced that NASTY looking jubillee clip that was holding the coolant host to the waterpump cover! Edited December 8, 2011 by Al_Orange Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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