monty_jon Posted December 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted December 8, 2011 Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 erm, no. I shudder to disagree with someone so obviously leaning left for fear of being shot down for non PC values. But India and China can not, in any way, shape or form, be compared. India will never be another China, it . . .might, be another "Africa" but not a China. Sorry. China being a good communist country, has VIP expressways which soar above the "freeways, which in turn soar above the 'great unwashed" I've been to and worked in both. chalk - cheese, are more similar. Indians, when you get them drunk enough, blame the UK for the state of their country. Chinese, don't even know where the UK is (bit like 'mercans) Left wing ideology is what has planked europe in the mess it is in. A belief that we are "entitled" or "deserve" or it is our "right" to have (insert item you can't actually pay for here) has led to the entire continent grossly over spending it's means. Should you decide that the UK with it's con/lib gov is not socialist / communist, I urge you to note the upper taxation level of 62% where the country gets more from your efforts than you do. erm, communism by definition (although, only saddled on the"rich") yes, I mutter this as the MD of a small company. I am appalled at the taxation levied in the UK and, I've been to and worked in more countries than is either sensible or reasonable, and as such, I have a _pretty_ good idea of where the UK sits in the "real" world. oddly enough, in the middle. not better, not worse, than most places. Never been called a communist before, usually waaay right of that. You actually sound like your part of the problem, look around you, are you seriously suggesting that the super rich pay anything near 62% tax ? Phillip Green being a prime example! Granted India has a long way to go, but is attempting to head in the right direction, can you honestly say that of the UK ? Next you'l castigate me for daring to criticize the UK, it might serve you well, but for many the future here is fairly bleak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the addict Posted December 8, 2011 Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 (edited) Granted India has a long way to go, but is attempting to head in the right direction, can you honestly say that of the UK ? Next you'l castigate me for daring to criticize the UK, it might serve you well, but for many the future here is fairly bleak. Bleak definitely The Uk is heading towards some huge problems, the only thing providing growth since 2008 has been the devaluation of Sterling, nothing more. Billions and billions pumped into the Banks to generate what? 0.6% of growth for 2011, next year will be terrible, where is future growth ever going to come from? a decade of massive debts to increase income and very little growth generated even in those times. Edited December 8, 2011 by The Addict Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the addict Posted December 8, 2011 Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 The Banking system was given the green light to loan to everyone, they have created trillions in currency and all that's been created is debt, we've spent all the money, its gone, all that's left are the debts. The figures are totally ridiculous, they will never be paid back, its impossible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg Posted December 8, 2011 Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 Good grief, I was talking more day to day life, deffo wont be buying a digger after reading that lot!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toofasttim Posted December 8, 2011 Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 India will never be another China, it . . .might, be another "Africa" Why do you say that? Having lived in Africa and watched African govts completely wreck advanced infrastructure and then sink into civil war I'd appreciate you telling me how India might be another Africa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airwave Posted December 9, 2011 Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 (edited) Why do you say that? Having lived in Africa and watched African govts completely wreck advanced infrastructure and then sink into civil war I'd appreciate you telling me how India might be another Africa. Think you answered that one perfectly yourself TFT. The infrastructure that was left in India was, for it's time, excellent. Indians now talk about an infrastructure deficit, wryly. As to buying a digger now, go fer it! As the Addict points out, pretty clearly, what you pay for it now will be a fraction of what it will cost in 10 years. Merv is devaluing the pound. That, simply put, means we are becoming poorer, day by day, relative to the rest of the world. From inside the UK, it's hard to see that as it looks like everything is becoming more expensive. You actually sound like your part of the problem, look around you, are you seriously suggesting that the super rich pay anything near 62% tax ? Phillip Green being a prime example! *sigh* reading the Gruinad ruins your eyesight. My company makes more than 85% of it's income outside the UK, pays UK based employees (on UK passports) and pays UK taxes, I _seriously_ doubt that I'm part of the problem. You don't have to be "super rich" to pay 62% tax, you just have to be on a decent day rate and daft enough to live in the UK and declare your earnings. which, oddly, very few people making a "decent day rate" do. Phillip Green runs a business and has a responsibility to his _Shareholders_ the people who actually _own_ the company. If he was stupid enough to pay the ridiculous taxes attempted to be levied by the UK gubmint, I would expect his shareholders to have his head on a stick. If the UK dropped headline taxes to reasonable levels, then an awful lot of people would come back into the tax system. There are hundreds of thousands of people gleefully dodging UK taxes (legally, sort of) in the modern world, you can't _make_ people pay taxes if they don't want to, they just move. If you tax at a reasonable level, and provide something in return for it, people will pay taxes. Currently headline taxes are "too high" and people are declining to pay them. When I say "Declining" to pay taxes, I really do mean that. If you have to write out a cheque (which I used to do, it's all handled online now) twice a year to pay corporation taxes, you would want to strangle any / all / every politician and demand an explanation of exactly what they are up to with yer money . . . which as you are writing out the cheque, you are acutely aware of . . _your_ money that you are giving to the country. One of the issues the UK faces is it is engaged in actively driving wealth (Put Job in there instead if it makes you feel better)creators out of the country. The combination of ludicrously high taxes and both direct and indirect taxation being out of control. Business regulation is beyond silly now, that is driving companies to countries where you can actually get things done, reasonably quickly, for a fraction of what they would cost here and be carried out by a technically competent and cheery staff. You make it difficult for people to both start and run businesses and once they get through the hoops and actually start the buisiness, you tax the living bejesus out of them, assuming they get through that; you foist another set of regulations on them as the company grows . . it's nuts. Politicians are another issue we have, Being from the nicer end of the UK (The North, obviously) :-) we get saddled with: An MEP for Brussels an MP for London an MSP for hollyrood a regional councillor for the Shire a local concillor for the district. exactly, why, do I need 5 effing politicians to continually generate _more_ hoops for me to jump through in my day to day life? but the main thing bringing the UK down . . ? Bin collection. I'm currently in Muscat in Oman, bins get collected at night. Every night. it's done quietly, quickly and for free ! Houses do not have armies of multicoloured bins outside them with rubbish festering inside them for weeks in between collections. There are no (paid for out of our taxes) "Bin police" instructing that the wrong items have been put in the wrong bins. I don't have to druve to the dump on a weekly basis to get rid of the rubbish piling up in my garage in Muscat. I was in Doha a while back (Qatar) nightly bin collection there too, also done quietly. Where the bin men are telling us what we can and can't do . . the plot has been lost. Edited December 9, 2011 by airwave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted December 9, 2011 Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 Think you answered that one perfectly yourself TFT. The infrastructure that was left in India was, for it's time, excellent. Indians now talk about an infrastructure deficit, wryly. As to buying a digger now, go fer it! As the Addict points out, pretty clearly, what you pay for it now will be a fraction of what it will cost in 10 years. Merv is devaluing the pound. That, simply put, means we are becoming poorer, day by day, relative to the rest of the world. From inside the UK, it's hard to see that as it looks like everything is becoming more expensive. *sigh* reading the Gruinad ruins your eyesight. My company makes more than 85% of it's income outside the UK, pays UK based employees (on UK passports) and pays UK taxes, I _seriously_ doubt that I'm part of the problem. You don't have to be "super rich" to pay 62% tax, you just have to be on a decent day rate and daft enough to live in the UK and declare your earnings. which, oddly, very few people making a "decent day rate" do. Phillip Green runs a business and has a responsibility to his _Shareholders_ the people who actually _own_ the company. If he was stupid enough to pay the ridiculous taxes attempted to be levied by the UK gubmint, I would expect his shareholders to have his head on a stick. If the UK dropped headline taxes to reasonable levels, then an awful lot of people would come back into the tax system. There are hundreds of thousands of people gleefully dodging UK taxes (legally, sort of) in the modern world, you can't _make_ people pay taxes if they don't want to, they just move. If you tax at a reasonable level, and provide something in return for it, people will pay taxes. Currently headline taxes are "too high" and people are declining to pay them. total B*****kss no one will pay taxes if they dont have to regardless of levels/where they live. Also p green is one of a few in that position him and the other dodgers wont make a difference to the economy as a whole. also and most importantly if you reduce(significantly) taxes where will the money come from to pay for hospitals and schools etc etc? if you think our taxes are bad live in france for a while Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airwave Posted December 9, 2011 Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 Maggie dropped the tax rate and increased the tax take. Have you seen how many british expats live in asia now ? Think you'll find it's a significant number and the UK is loosing a significant amount of money that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted December 9, 2011 Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 (edited) total B*****kss Also p green is one of a few in that position him and the other dodgers wont make a difference to the economy as a whole. If they don't/wont miss p greens contribution, they certainly wont miss mine, sadly I don't have that option. Must mention that when I get my January tax demand. Airwave - so you haven't set up an off shore trust and pay yourself dividends ? Bin men Doha - what nationality were they ? Probably Indian ! Shareholders - the route of all evil, funnily enough the institutional shareholders are trying to cap board room excesses ! (prompt - that's only a tiny proportion etc) Edited December 9, 2011 by B40RT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted December 9, 2011 Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 Maggie dropped the tax rate and increased the tax take. Have you seen how many british expats live in asia now ? Think you'll find it's a significant number and the UK is loosing a significant amount of money that way. Anecdotal irrelevent heresay. Expats are everywhere always have been, you havnt answered my last two points, you have no facts to back up what you say this is pointless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ham2 Posted December 9, 2011 Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 There is an "advisory" on Fora, read what you are replying to. we give money to them, they buy stuff from us (at, almost) what we pay them . . . if they decide to pay expats to do a space program, or build nuclear weapons, is that really our business? (d'you really think India had anything to do with it's own space program? given that they can't even organise parking police or electricity payments . . ) The point I'm making is that I was under the impression that the foreign aid dished out to developing countries was to meet the costs for the basics i.e.roads, bridges, schools, health clinics, food and water distribution etc.. not to fund luxuries like 30 half a***d thermo-nuclear weapons and ISRO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airwave Posted December 9, 2011 Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 Anecdotal irrelevent heresay. Expats are everywhere always have been, you havnt answered my last two points, you have no facts to back up what you say this is pointless. American historical info on tax rates versus tax revenue. ) Lower tax rates do not mean less tax revenue. The tax cuts of the 1920s Tax rates were slashed dramatically during the 1920s, dropping from over 70 percent to less than 25 percent. What happened? Personal income tax revenues increased substantially during the 1920s, despite the reduction in rates. Revenues rose from $719 million in 1921 to $1164 million in 1928, an increase of more than 61 percent. According to then-Treasury Secretary Andrew Mellon: The history of taxation shows that taxes which are inherently excessive are not paid. The high rates inevitably put pressure upon the taxpayer to withdraw his capital from productive business and invest it in tax-exempt securities or to find other lawful methods of avoiding the realization of taxable income. The result is that the sources of taxation are drying up; wealth is failing to carry its share of the tax burden; and capital is being diverted into channels which yield neither revenue to the Government nor profit to the people. The Kennedy tax cuts President Hoover dramatically increased tax rates in the 1930s and President Roosevelt compounded the damage by pushing marginal tax rates to more than 90 percent. Recognizing that high tax rates were hindering the economy, President Kennedy proposed across-the-board tax rate reductions that reduced the top tax rate from more than 90 percent down to 70 percent. What happened? Tax revenues climbed from $94 billion in 1961 to $153 billion in 1968, an increase of 62 percent (33 percent after adjusting for inflation). According to President John F. Kennedy: Our true choice is not between tax reduction, on the one hand, and the avoidance of large Federal deficits on the other. It is increasingly clear that no matter what party is in power, so long as our national security needs keep rising, an economy hampered by restrictive tax rates will never produce enough revenues to balance our budget just as it will never produce enough jobs or enough profits Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ishy Posted December 9, 2011 Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 That I agree with, too many people think living of the state is a career choice! Most creatures can manage fine supporting a few parasites but once the numbers get too great the host weakens and dies. "Hanging on in quite desperation is the English way" He got that ******* right didn't he Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted December 9, 2011 Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 (edited) American historical info on tax rates versus tax revenue. it is 'merican info, but we have broadly similar enonomies. HSBC expat survey "Wealth is moving east" fairly clear survey by HSBC (2009) Stop driving people out of the country with punitive taxes. American general info of taxes in the 1920's isnt really applicable to Britan a century later is it? A "survey" of 3100 worldwide by the hong kong and shanghi bank is hardly evidence is it? Despite which side of politics anyone is on neither the last labour government or the current co-alition agree with your viewpoint which considering they have the best and most capable economists between them kind of undermines your ideas on taxes. Edited December 9, 2011 by Nigel Dabster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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