gizza5 Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 Gizza 5,sorry,I got the wrong impression from your original post.You are very much correct in saying that No Stop needs to be given time.(Thought you were someone who couldn't be bothered to consider change!Apologies! No problem mate and thanks for the apology, I am not saying it will work, but if it does let us re-visit this post and lets hear from the people that have judged it after one event? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 (edited) Really dont see why you have to give no stop time, we all know it can work, and certainly does for the "special" events you mention. However so does this mean that no stop is the panacea for all our woes, will increase the active participation of the youths, and sell a single extra bike? Does the BTC even sell bikes? If it does then the guys that purchase bikes must all be detectives because as a hardned follower of trials I found two recent events more by chance than anything else so how newbies would defies belief. There are many things wrong with the btc but the rules for the top route isnt one of them and no one has ever provided a good reason for them to be changed. Its 6 events out of the thousands that run every year so why should we disadvantage the top lads? And lastly would someone explain why the importers can decide the rules? Edited December 15, 2011 by Nigel Dabster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveo Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 we had to learn the hopping and skipping so we all have to learn to keep forward momentum its that simple. The vast majority of older riders have NOT put in the effort to learn these skills ( hopping, front wheel, back wheel side ways or stationary balancing to compose for the next challenge of a section)that is probably why they favour the No Stop. Really it is a part of the progression of Trials no matter what age you are with the machinery now available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveo Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 And lastly would someone explain why the importers can decide the rules? Best question yet ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john collins Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 You will notice that I have not commented on much of this debate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosey Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 (edited) I can't recall what exactly went wrong with the British Championships. I'm not sure it was just one thing, but Brit Champ events used to have 150 riders and multi venue (road trials).. Then the top 10 were balloted together. A mobile road-block went round the events causing havoc! .... Maybe this was part of the big problem too. A while back there was also a push from importers to make the british champ rounds hard. So our riders could benefit in World Champ stuff... well some riders did benefit and as they improved (or advanced), the section severity increased, but Trials in the UK didn't benefit from having top riders in the World Champs ...Or did it? Did the ACU card/licence holder numbers increase??? Whatever is the problem in the Brit championship, I dont give a monkey's... I don't care if there is no British champ. Or indeed, if there are 50 riders and 50 routes in these events. I'd just like to see lots of people getting enjoyment from trials at whatever level they ride. I don't like to see willing volunteers get 'stick' for events they have plotted or helped to organise. There are a few who do it because they want to be gods, but only a few! Others do give up their time for riders to have an easy (no hassle) enjoyable weekend. Hopefully the organisers plot sections in a suitable manner for the trial and hopefully, if no-stop goes ahead, then old pieces of land become useful again. I'd still like to know how many ID card/licence holders there are now?.. How does this compare to say 20 years ago????? This isn't a secret is it? Edited December 15, 2011 by Rosey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chewy Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 I'd still like to know how many ID card/licence holders there are now?.. How does this compare to say 20 years ago????? This isn't a secret is it? I used to keep asking that question...gave up after a few years..I guess you are trying to establish if "it" is actually broken and is in need of fixing..agree with your sentiments generally ..the vast majority of riders don't need full on /mega sections and the majority of those who want them will never be able to ride them properly..easier sections marked correctly would be a start in the right direction at all levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 I'd still like to know how many ID card/licence holders there are now?.. How does this compare to say 20 years ago????? This isn't a secret is it? I used to keep asking that question...gave up after a few years..I guess you are trying to establish if "it" is actually broken and is in need of fixing..agree with your sentiments generally ..the vast majority of riders don't need full on /mega sections and the majority of those who want them will never be able to ride them properly..easier sections marked correctly would be a start in the right direction at all levels. Why? its less and the ages are older surely that is obvious to all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_scorpa3 Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 Many others have posted with the same opinion as me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 Spot on John, the Stratford Club (Wrighty) got some stick for the recent Ralph Varden Trial (at the start of this thread) but at the club AGM two days later, there was not one single new face, not one single offer to step in and do it better and only one person under 38. In the absence of all this new young help, we are just fortunate that the over 40's are still prepared to run trials at all. Pete Well said it's just a shame those who think o/40's are out of touch agreed with your sentiments. Some people will always be just take take take and never dream of giving back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 John, many thanks AGAIN for taking the time to provide such a comprehensive response. Your contributions to these forums are very much appreciated by me and I'm sure by others too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyl Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 Well said John and Andy. For those that feel the ACU are underhand search through John's past comments. He always says it as it is and why it has been done and will always take your views on board. May not do what you want but will take your views on board and explain why things have gone the way thay have. I think this is very refreshing for an organising body. PS I also know the hours and miles John does so we can all go and play safely in the mud on a weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copemech Posted December 16, 2011 Report Share Posted December 16, 2011 At a quick read through this topic, opinions vary and I have my own. I shall go back and take in JC's long dissertatation later, as I cannot absorb it now. Yet one thing that noone has brought up is just how much skill is required for a modern "hopper" to ride no-stop properly. Yes, the good-uns can still do it properly and it seems to me it is quite difficult under the strictist of observation, yet can be done. The top lads are not only good ridere, but can be quite decieptful in their quick workings of the bike. In my recent viewings of some of the top riders in the SSDT I found some potential issues. I cannot recall the specifics, yet I think it was possibly Dabill who was caught in this one section with a momentary pause, then after that a young Jono that rode the same line properly. Same bend, same rear wheel move, yet Jono never stopped the front wheel movement. Perfect! A top lad is hard pressed to get caught out on a momentary hesitation, yet it can happen easily, and it is a lot easier to get points out of these lads that way as compared to trying to kill them on big stuff. It is SOO hard to lay out a top level trial without getting someone hurt, or making it too easy it is crazy! I have studied sections for years now and it is still mind boggling. I do think taking the WTC to Scotland sections worked well it seems, as there was a big question on that at first under stop allowed. So even if I think or prefer stop for one is more in the spirit of the average clubman, I could easily administer some points on the high side to top riders with a few bobbles! They came to play the hard game! Lets play! Don't cut them any slack! Then they MUST improve, yet still a skills game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattylad Posted December 16, 2011 Report Share Posted December 16, 2011 One question regarding how will a stop be deemed to have taken place? Historically this was when the front wheel stopped rotating, easy to see. Nowadays we have hopping from rock to rock on the rear wheel only as well as some stationary or quasi stationary hopping. The front is locked by front brake. Question is how will this be observed. I also have to disagree with John Collins (which I rarely do). he wrote "This actually works the other way as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizza5 Posted December 16, 2011 Report Share Posted December 16, 2011 One question regarding how will a stop be deemed to have taken place? Same as it was when riders roll back with the stop rule and get away with it? Purely down to the observer on the section, no two volunteers the same Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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