No Stop : not working

[telecat]

Sorry but "Back in the old Days" does not "cut it". The SSDT and Scott have SPECIFIC needs which means that TSR22B works for them. As I have stated so MANY Times I am sick of it, it does not MATTER the rules that are run. If the course is difficult MARKS WILL BE LOST. Unfortunately many riders CANNOT and WILL NOT accept this and gripe and moan about the trial whichever rules are run. This seems to be an "older" core who Miss riding with Rathmell and Lampkin and Thorpe. BIG NEWS Guys, they've gone!!! The riders who succeeded them got better. The courses had to get Harder. To Compensate John Collins and clubs thoughout the land included slightly easier courses and numbers for the complete BTC steadied. CofC's still vied to get the "best" off the bikes which is NOT THE POINT. The point is to get Marks off them not KILL THEM. Until the ACU and FIM Get clubs in hand we will have "silly" Trials. Hell we get "silly" Courses at Club level at times. Most Club Trials are set correctly for the people they know are coming. Given a hint anybody good is turning up some go completely mad. The sport is fragmenting. The Riders who want TSR22B are going to have to move away from those with TSR22A. Given the Vitriol spouted by many in the TSR22B camp that would be a good thing. They can run the Traditional and S3 series and the rest can run the rules the rest of the World run.

We have a BIG core of young riders on OSET's running rules not far away from TSR22A. They will hopefully move to REV50/80 Cadet 80's when they are old enough. They GET the rules. They will be buying the Petrol bikes. The Importers HAVE NOT invested in the Young riders. BETA so nearly had them with the REV50 and then they dropped it. Commercially understandable as they did not want to commit to a long production run of an engine they would have to buy and not own. However it was a dropped ball for the sport until OSET came along. I can only hope Mecatecno are sensible and don't mess the market up and kill the "Golden Goose". They are where the Money will be coming from and they are all under 25. That market is growing after Years of Neglect and they mostly prefer TSR22A.

Basically there are two BIG markets. The Middle aged who now have money after Years of Kids sponging it up and the Young who haven't any kids. We HAVE to accommodate both. Because the young don't compromise and the old "want it as it was". Live with it we are in Transition and a recession. You leave well alone and watch where the market goes. Any attempt to "push" it risks Killing the Sport. I unfortunately don't have "faith" in any "old guard". The History of the British Motorcycle Industry shows the "bosses" don't know what they are doing. They went with the Mantra and Died. I don't want to see Trials in the UK die because we end up a blind alley.

[telecat]

And another Point. Clubs HAVE, not should But HAVE to get the Kids in. OSET Trials have brought many Kids to Trials with Parents who haven't been before. Welcome them. Convince them we are not like Football parents and they will get support. Give Them the feeling that they can Trust the clubs and they will be noticed and encouraged. Too many clubs concentrate on the "older" members. They will die slowly without Youth riders.

Again. Spend time and effort on the Kids you WILL be repaid.

[bilc0]

Again. Spend time and effort on the Kids you WILL be repaid.

I would imagine we all get your point there, The pre 16 year olds you can mould but as soon as there 16 other things come along such as Road bikes, girls, new friends, nightclubs, and more importantly going away to learn a trade that pays real money for later in life.

The above certainly happened for me, 19 years later i return to trials, i can count on one hand the names i still reconise in todays results that i used to ride with as a kid, where are the rest.

My return look at trials after the 19 years i thought what a mess.

If the youngsters want to ride stop then why hav'nt they broken away to set up there own clubs, have there own social times with each other, after all a 16 year old would'nt want to go night clubbing with a 40 year old.

[gizza5]

I would imagine we all get your point there, The pre 16 year olds you can mould but as soon as there 16 other things come along such as Road bikes, girls, new friends, nightclubs, and more importantly going away to learn a trade that pays real money for later in life.

The above certainly happened for me, 19 years later i return to trials, i can count on one hand the names i still reconise in todays results that i used to ride with as a kid, where are the rest.

My return look at trials after the 19 years i thought what a mess.

If the youngsters want to ride stop then why hav'nt they broken away to set up there own clubs, have there own social times with each other, after all a 16 year old would'nt want to go night clubbing with a 40 year old.

Good point made and I have said that in the past women hey! they got alot to answer for!

The top lads will be the top lads whatever the rules, so cater for the majotity.

[jimmyl]

I still fail to understand the rants - clubs can do what they like. Apart from 6 BTC rounds nothing has changed other than clubs and centres are starting to make their own decisions I presume based on what they belive suit there membership the best. In reality there is absolutely nothing wrong with the same club running "stop allowed" and "no stop" championships if they thought the membership would suport fully both series.

[pete_scorpa3]

I still fail to understand the rants - clubs can do what they like. Apart from 6 BTC rounds nothing has changed other than clubs and centres are starting to make their own decisions I presume based on what they belive suit there membership the best. In reality there is absolutely nothing wrong with the same club running "stop allowed" and "no stop" championships if they thought the membership would suport fully both series.

In 2012 we will be running three nationals and a Centre Trial on non stop (TSR22b) and four club trials on stop allowed (TSR22a).

The club trials will be stop allowed for as long as the rules allow or until the majority of the riders ask for a change.

Can't say fairer than that.

Pete

[jimmyl]

Can't say fairer than that.

]

[nigel dabster]

...and that is why we are a democracy, freedom of choice.

[b40rt]

Except the House of Lords.... yet.

[motorcycleemptyness]

I cannot understand why there is a need for change , why are some clubs jumping on the 'no stop' bandwagen ? We have a championship for everyone at the moment , the BTC , Normandale , Sammy Miller , S3/Novagar , Centre Champs , Club Champs etc etc. No stop is great if you have the right venue , but try marking out a no stop trial at some non descript , rubbish tip , flat as a pancake , JCB dug out venue. And what about the kids ? Are they going to practice no-stop on thier bicycles on the way to school, or impress their mates with some trick riding ? Think about it.

We as humans need to EVOLVE... If you want to live in the past ....Ride a pre 65. And leave the future alone !

[woody]

Are they going to practice no-stop on thier bicycles on the way to school, or impress their mates with some trick riding ? Think about it.

We as humans need to EVOLVE... If you want to live in the past ....Ride a pre 65. And leave the future alone !

Two points in your post

First - 'leave the future alone'. Whilst I much prefer no-stop I wouldn't want to 'impose' that rule on anyone who didn't want it. However, under current stop and hop rules, new riders are hardly flowing in to club level trials at the moment are they? So no-stop surely isn't going to worsen this, should the majority of clubs choose to adopt it? (they have the choice, as has been pointed out many, many, and many times...)

'impress their mates with some trick riding' - This is the one aspect of trick riding I truly hated when it first appeared back in twinshock days. Trials was never a poser spport and was never about impressing your mates with the look what I can do stuff. But it is what it quickly became. Every trial, some riders couldn't wait to get the bike unloaded and then hop and bounce their way around the car park in a demo of 'look how clever I am'. In sections, where one or two hops would suffice to get round a turn, we were treated to 20 or 30 as riders hopped round, then back to where they atarted, then back again. It went on and on and on. Utterly tedious.

A typical club trial, the usual mix of a few (single figures) experts with many more clubmen, novices, over 40. The stream of riders flows quite nicely through sections until you get caught up behind a couple of expert riders who take forever to get through a section - balancing, hopping, rebalancing, revving, dropping the clutch in an explosion of revs, only to get stuck on the next obstacle. Then there's the usual rocking to and fro until they eventually get the bike free. They are now on 3 (5 in old money and time to p*** off out of the section) Now line up for the next obstacle, repeating previously mentioned balancing hopping revving. Attempt to move back wheeel once - works. Second attempt fails and foot goes down. Bike now stationary with foot down whilst rider hops the back wheel several times sideways to line up. Launches at next obstacle, gets stuck on roots, rocks bike back and forth to get free (has now incurred a 5 at leat 3 times but still on a 3) Next obstacle - repeat all of the previous maneuoveres one more time, apart from on this occassion the bike is rolled backwards at least 2' in the process of lining up. Eventually, rider finally exits section for a score of 3. Total joke, bears no resemblance to the true ethos or spirit of motorcycle trials whatsoever and utterly painful to be stuck in a queue whilst it goes on.

And all of it could have been achieved no-stop with 3 well placed dabs... which is exactly what a competent older rider who can't trick ride did. I know which ride was appreciated more by the riders waiting in the queue - for the more 'graceful' ride as well as the fraction of the time taken.

As well as considering whether no-stop will discourage people from taking part, what about the contrast? I know some riders who won't go to certain events because of the time taken sitting in queues waiting for the aforemntioned scenario to play out.

[axulsuv]

Two points in your post

First - 'leave the future alone'. Whilst I much prefer no-stop I wouldn't want to 'impose' that rule on anyone who didn't want it. However, under current stop and hop rules, new riders are hardly flowing in to club level trials at the moment are they? So no-stop surely isn't going to worsen this, should the majority of clubs choose to adopt it? (they have the choice, as has been pointed out many, many, and many times...)

'impress their mates with some trick riding' - This is the one aspect of trick riding I truly hated when it first appeared back in twinshock days. Trials was never a poser spport and was never about impressing your mates with the look what I can do stuff. But it is what it quickly became. Every trial, some riders couldn't wait to get the bike unloaded and then hop and bounce their way around the car park in a demo of 'look how clever I am'. In sections, where one or two hops would suffice to get round a turn, we were treated to 20 or 30 as riders hopped round, then back to where they atarted, then back again. It went on and on and on. Utterly tedious.

A typical club trial, the usual mix of a few (single figures) experts with many more clubmen, novices, over 40. The stream of riders flows quite nicely through sections until you get caught up behind a couple of expert riders who take forever to get through a section - balancing, hopping, rebalancing, revving, dropping the clutch in an explosion of revs, only to get stuck on the next obstacle. Then there's the usual rocking to and fro until they eventually get the bike free. They are now on 3 (5 in old money and time to p*** off out of the section) Now line up for the next obstacle, repeating previously mentioned balancing hopping revving. Attempt to move back wheeel once - works. Second attempt fails and foot goes down. Bike now stationary with foot down whilst rider hops the back wheel several times sideways to line up. Launches at next obstacle, gets stuck on roots, rocks bike back and forth to get free (has now incurred a 5 at leat 3 times but still on a 3) Next obstacle - repeat all of the previous maneuoveres one more time, apart from on this occassion the bike is rolled backwards at least 2' in the process of lining up. Eventually, rider finally exits section for a score of 3. Total joke, bears no resemblance to the true ethos or spirit of motorcycle trials whatsoever and utterly painful to be stuck in a queue whilst it goes on.

And all of it could have been achieved no-stop with 3 well placed dabs... which is exactly what a competent older rider who can't trick ride did. I know which ride was appreciated more by the riders waiting in the queue - for the more 'graceful' ride as well as the fraction of the time taken.

As well as considering whether no-stop will discourage people from taking part, what about the contrast? I know some riders who won't go to certain events because of the time taken sitting in queues waiting for the aforemntioned scenario to play out.

Best post yet ... Cut right to the meat , And now it lays bleeding ...

Style and finesse count in my book , Feet on the pegs , and if you need a dab , plan it and place it !

Edited December 20, 2011 by axulsuv

[copemech]

Two points in your post

First - 'leave the future alone'. Whilst I much prefer no-stop I wouldn't want to 'impose' that rule on anyone who didn't want it. However, under current stop and hop rules, new riders are hardly flowing in to club level trials at the moment are they? So no-stop surely isn't going to worsen this, should the majority of clubs choose to adopt it? (they have the choice, as has been pointed out many, many, and many times...)

'impress their mates with some trick riding' - This is the one aspect of trick riding I truly hated when it first appeared back in twinshock days. Trials was never a poser spport and was never about impressing your mates with the look what I can do stuff. But it is what it quickly became. Every trial, some riders couldn't wait to get the bike unloaded and then hop and bounce their way around the car park in a demo of 'look how clever I am'. In sections, where one or two hops would suffice to get round a turn, we were treated to 20 or 30 as riders hopped round, then back to where they atarted, then back again. It went on and on and on. Utterly tedious.

A typical club trial, the usual mix of a few (single figures) experts with many more clubmen, novices, over 40. The stream of riders flows quite nicely through sections until you get caught up behind a couple of expert riders who take forever to get through a section - balancing, hopping, rebalancing, revving, dropping the clutch in an explosion of revs, only to get stuck on the next obstacle. Then there's the usual rocking to and fro until they eventually get the bike free. They are now on 3 (5 in old money and time to p*** off out of the section) Now line up for the next obstacle, repeating previously mentioned balancing hopping revving. Attempt to move back wheeel once - works. Second attempt fails and foot goes down. Bike now stationary with foot down whilst rider hops the back wheel several times sideways to line up. Launches at next obstacle, gets stuck on roots, rocks bike back and forth to get free (has now incurred a 5 at leat 3 times but still on a 3) Next obstacle - repeat all of the previous maneuoveres one more time, apart from on this occassion the bike is rolled backwards at least 2' in the process of lining up. Eventually, rider finally exits section for a score of 3. Total joke, bears no resemblance to the true ethos or spirit of motorcycle trials whatsoever and utterly painful to be stuck in a queue whilst it goes on.

And all of it could have been achieved no-stop with 3 well placed dabs... which is exactly what a competent older rider who can't trick ride did. I know which ride was appreciated more by the riders waiting in the queue - for the more 'graceful' ride as well as the fraction of the time taken.

As well as considering whether no-stop will discourage people from taking part, what about the contrast? I know some riders who won't go to certain events because of the time taken sitting in queues waiting for the aforemntioned scenario to play out.

tHAT IS WHERE TIME LIMITS COME IN!

[woody]

tHAT IS WHERE TIME LIMITS COME IN!

Totally unrealistic in a club trial and it will never happen. There is no-one from any of the groups of riders and organisers that I know and ride with that would even want it, let alone try and implement it.

And imagine the health and safety issues these days of having to prove that you're providing fully sanitised whistles for officials to blow on at each event. More paperwork than organising the event itself...

I prefer a crossbow - in the section for more than 30 seconds and you get one through the ribs, that would keep them moving. And the queuing riders get the crossbow, no need for more officials...

[pete_scorpa3]

'impress their mates with some trick riding' - This is the one aspect of trick riding I truly hated when it first appeared back in twinshock days. Trials was never a poser sport and was never about impressing your mates with the look what I can do stuff. But it is what it quickly became. Every trial, some riders couldn't wait to get the bike unloaded and then hop and bounce their way around the car park in a demo of 'look how clever I am'. In sections, where one or two hops would suffice to get round a turn, we were treated to 20 or 30 as riders hopped round, then back to where they started, then back again. It went on and on and on. Utterly tedious.

Again, well said Woody.

'Trick' riding in a section is impressive when it gives a rider a clean.

But it can also be very frustrating to watch when a rider tries to hop about and looses marks in a section that is being ridden by others non stop for a clean.

Even in a stop allowed trial, a skilful rider will ride non stop until stopping benefits them.