pete_scorpa3 Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 Personally i agree with you Pete but think we will need a big skip for all the dummys that will be spit. Yes, and that's just the reason that the ACU haven't made the descision for 2012. Damned if they do and damned if they don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamersby Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 Just thought I would chuck my two pence worth in as I started trials in the early eighties when it was just twin shocks with the no stop rule and the sections were set out to suit, then monoshocks came along which seemed to whip them sections easily, eventually as more mono's turned up and less twinshocks sections were made tight and twisty if you couldn't bunny hop you had no chance, skillful as it may be some riders took ages in a section lining their bikes up for the next climb regardless of probably 20 riders waiting at the section, to me it became dull and less fun, so I am all for the non stop rule, but which ever rule is adopted it should be for all clubs and riders should adapt to what is set out in front of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ishy Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 Pete Scorpa 3 You ask what rule would I like to see, well certainly for the youths, stop allowed, we have a fair bit to do with the Kent Youth Trials Club and I think most kids will stop riding Trials. That'll give em more time for X BOX, then they can go online and find the cheat codes if the game is too hard. Just the reason trials is in the mess it is now, they want to ride the tight big spectacular **** but don't want to loose points, so the past thirty years have been spent trying to accomplish this, the peg doesn't fit change the peg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purplebeast Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 (edited) I have to say, I can see more disadvantages to non stop, than stop allowed, my 14yr old son got intrested in Trials two years ago, he has got better and better and was going to do a championship this coming year but has lost interest now, as he said " I spent a long time learning good balance, now if I pause to change into second for the hill out of a section or something, after cleaning everything up to that point, I may well get a five, someone just walks the bike through, thats a three! I thought Trials was a test of balance and control, not moto cross?" Well said, WabbitWacer! This is my opinion as well....and I've only just started to ride a trials bike this past summer, at the ripe old age of 55! If inordinate delays are the real problem, then there should be ways to address that without eliminating the ability to stop/hop. I have been told the change was to get more riders into the British championships, well as I understand it most of the top riders wont ride this year they are going to the worlds where stop is still allowed, I have also been told that the youth series will still be stop allowed, if so, what a mess, do a club championship then do the youth series, rule change, move to the adult, rule change, move to the world, rule change! its not really helping is it? I was speaking to a very well versed and connected individual in the North American trials community recently. He knows everyone that is everyone and has decades of Trials involvement. This individual thinks the No-Stop rule change in Britain is a political move to try and disadvantage, or at least even the playing field, against the mainland Europeans in top level competition. Supposedly the last set of rule changes had a similar hidden agenda, and it's happening again. I don't know if this is true or not, but having seen much of the politicing that goes on at the international levels (think the IOC!), it wouldn't surprise me in the least. Unfortunately, the club riders' needs/opinions rarely get taken into account for such things. Edited December 31, 2011 by PurpleBeast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_scorpa3 Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 You ask what rule would I like to see, well certainly for the youths, stop allowed,.... The six day, the scot etc yes ok, non stop if they wish, not many youths ride in that do they? So let me get this straight. You don't want one set of rules for all, you actually want two sets. But you previously wrote about the mess we are in. Maybe you are starting to see the problem the ACU faces with this? It's far from easy to please everyone and non one knows what effect if any the change will have. This time next year our views and opinions will be far more objective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabbitracing Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 So one small rule change that will only affect a very small ammount of people and you spit the dummy? If they put an extra chicane in at your favourite track would you also pack in racing? of course in racing they never ever change any rule do they??? Sounds like a temper tantrum to me. As a matter of interest did you attend the ACU Trials seminar and put your point forward? Why not start a club, you can you know! , that will run trials to a rule book vince approves of? Nothing stopping you and you will get loads of advice and of course support from local riders Dont get personal, no one has spit their dummy out, no one has had a temper tantrum, just passed an opinion and made a desision not to do something that they dont enjoy any more, not really sure what you mean "only effects a very small amount of people" everyone who rides Trials is effected, if you mean only youth's, well, dont you think it is a good idea to get new riders coming along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabbitracing Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 No Pete not two sets of rules, idealy one for all but we are all over the place now and out of step with the rest of the world, no one has passed an opinion about my suggestion of a stop is a one, that gives you a chance to finish the section but stiil encourages you to try to ride non stop, as it is now it is quite posiable that a real beginer will not finish many sections, no one can really think this is a good idea, can they? as you say you will have to see what happens over the coming year but every one I spoke to today as I helped set out a trial, said they didn't feel happy with the change, most seemed to think my idea of the one for a stop was worth talking about. anyway I have passed my opinion, we have met a few really nice folk while we were involved, I wish you all a Happy New Year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lineaway Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 No Pete not two sets of rules, idealy one for all but we are all over the place now and out of step with the rest of the world, no one has passed an opinion about my suggestion of a stop is a one, that gives you a chance to finish the section but stiil encourages you to try to ride non stop, as it is now it is quite posiable that a real beginer will not finish many sections, no one can really think this is a good idea, can they? as you say you will have to see what happens over the coming year but every one I spoke to today as I helped set out a trial, said they didn't feel happy with the change, most seemed to think my idea of the one for a stop was worth talking about. anyway I have passed my opinion, we have met a few really nice folk while we were involved, I wish you all a Happy New Year. I`m not sure being you said that you were new to the sport, but everyone has already done the 1 for a stop,then 2 for a stop with a foot down. Actually the stop with the foot down should never have been allowed, or should have been a three since at that point you are no longer riding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_scorpa3 Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 No Pete not two sets of rules, idealy one for all but we are all over the place now and out of step with the rest of the world, no one has passed an opinion about my suggestion of a stop is a one, that gives you a chance to finish the section but stiil encourages you to try to ride non stop, as it is now it is quite posiable that a real beginer will not finish many sections, no one can really think this is a good idea, can they? as you say you will have to see what happens over the coming year but every one I spoke to today as I helped set out a trial, said they didn't feel happy with the change, most seemed to think my idea of the one for a stop was worth talking about. anyway I have passed my opinion, we have met a few really nice folk while we were involved, I wish you all a Happy New Year. I strongly believe all trials should be run under one set of rules. I prefer to ride stop allowed myself but see the difficulty the ACU are in (as I've written about in an earlier post) with so many good events/championships being run under the two different rules. As for the stop for a one. We used the stop for a one system for a few years and on paper it looked perfect. It soon became obvious that in reality it was badly flawed. It was too complicated.... by far! one dab is a one two dabs is a two three dabs is a three one stop is a one two stops is a two three stops is three one foot down stop is a two one foot down with two stops is a three two feet down stop is a three bounce sideways whilst moving was a clean bounce sideways whilst stationary was a five go backwards feet up or down was a five Stall the bike feet up is a one Stall the bike feet up but take your hands off the bars is a five Stall the bike with a foot down is a five Stall the bike whilst footing but keep moving was a three Take your hand off the bars whilst stationary (I kid you not, this was a rule!) is a five. 'IF' this system could have been applied correctly, then I believe we would still have it now but... Try explaining that mess to a 'first time' observer five minutes before the start of a trial! In all the time I rode under this system, I was never given a two for a stationary dab. Most (not all) observers didn't even try to observe this correctly, it just turned back into a free-for-all. No wonder the ACU decided to go back to either stopping allowed or full non stop. I have no idea how this is going to end, we run three nationals and a centre trial under non stop and four club trials under stop allowed, I just hope what ever happens it doesn't put too many people off trials. We can't afford to loose anyone. Not the youngsters and not to over 40's either. All the best for the New Year! Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 (edited) Dont get personal, no one has spit their dummy out, no one has had a temper tantrum, just passed an opinion and made a desision not to do something that they dont enjoy any more, not really sure what you mean "only effects a very small amount of people" everyone who rides Trials is effected, if you mean only youth's, well, dont you think it is a good idea to get new riders coming along. It only affects a small amount of people i.e. those that are riding the BTC as the ACU and lets not forget the AMCA have categorically NOT stated that clubs should run events to no stop. You, as a club, can run your trial to either set of rules so whats the problem? As for "dont you think it is a good idea to get new riders coming along" of course i do but why do you and others on here seem to think these "new riders" will be youths??? they may be but far more likely they will be older as the youth element hasnt got any money and will not stick at it once the bank of mum and dad has dried up. Yes they may come back at some point possably but the vast majourity of riders and potential new riders are older and have to go to work on Monday so they are the target for any growth or at least stability in trials entries. As for spit the dummy and your statement that no one has. Errr read the whole thread and i think you might just see what i am getting at. Anyway what is so hard about learning to ride no stop? surely everybody had to learn to ride stop? plus just ride at trials that dont run to no stop again wheres the problem? You suggested a stop should be a one. That was tried and failed. How about you have 10 seconds to complete a section and every second over that is one mark added to whatever marks you droped in the section??? you can stop in the section and bugger about if you like and 10 seconds is plenty long enough for a section. Edited January 1, 2012 by Old trials fanatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axulsuv Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 What the heck does " spit the dummy " mean or imply ??? Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 What the heck does " spit the dummy " mean or imply ??? Glenn A DUMMY IS A PASSIFIER OR SOOTHER? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axulsuv Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 A DUMMY IS A PASSIFIER OR SOOTHER? OK , Makes sense now ... Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telecat Posted January 2, 2012 Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 Watched a No-Stop with a "No-Stop" die hard observing. He did not give 5's were he should have!!!! As for dummies how many No-Stoppers here seem to go 180 over 120 at any criticism of No-Stop. I'll state it again. A Trial can be either when "Properly" set. Too many "No-Stop" are not "Properly set" and too many do not "Properly Mark" them. I'll also state something else controversial. All Trials are Boring to watch. Stick at a section and the best riders all ride it pretty much the same. That's not interesting. But that's not the point. At BTC and World level the interest is watching and FOLLOWING a rider. Same as it is for many Motorsports. I defy you to sit at a corner and be enthralled by every driver in a WTCC or BTCC race. It's a case of economics not enough people have the money to compete even in a "cheap" sport like Trials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizza5 Posted January 2, 2012 Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 Watched a No-Stop with a "No-Stop" die hard observing. He did not give 5's were he should have!!!! So rather than pick on the rule change pick on the observer? This is the person that has given up his or her Sunday to grab a board so the majority can enjoy? then get people like you say they are doing the job wrong when indeed we should be encouraging and thanking them? This is the same observer that has probably observed under the stop rules! the stop for 1 rule etc.etc. and has made errors with all the rules that they don't understand and don't know, they may let guys roll back (oh Yes this happens) and get away with it, had arguements with parents and given a clean because they feel intimidated, but they still pick up a board and mark what they see? If you want to talk about observers then I feel No stop is the easiest to explain when your scratching around at 10:28am still looking for 3 observers, correct me if I am wrong? We are still only a few weeks in give it time for the organisers, observers and riders, we did for all the other rule changes! As for the riders some will moan whatever trial is put on, these are the people that know everything, yet help out with nothing!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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