No Stop : not working

[chewy]

I remain of the opinion that we as a little Island can't simply ride to different rules to everybody else in the world. I also think that the key to ameliorate (speeling?) a large part of the problem lies in the marking out of the sections and the terrain available..for most trials it would also be a big help to know who was going to be riding. We are a minority of a minority so falling out amongst ourselves is the last thing we should be doing. Maybe a rule (It appears nobody can do anything without it being a rule) to the effect of everybody who wants to ride must provide some help. As an over 60 having ridden competitly for 40+ years it seems to me that youngsters generally would profit from and contribute to our sport by getting involved in making it happen on a regular basis. Something us oldies should remember is that youngsters are COMPETITIVE and are driven to proove themselves better than thier peers, they see thier peers on promotional videos,(manufacturers/Importers/retailers all have interest in this) indoor trials, WTC. as well as locally..perhaps this goes some way to understanding thier angst with the direction they see their sport going. The reality is that most local riders are happy to ride easy trials not too far from home and they will appreciate what is provided for them along with the fresh air and excercise..this is where our sport is flourishing despite all this stuff going on... this is where we should be concentrating our efforts.

[telecat]

Hysteria???? look in the mirror!!!!

I'm not the one trying to force "All" riders to ride to rules they don't want to.........

[chewy]

Telecat you need to think about your argument before having it. Many times it has been made clear above that nobody is forcing all riders to do anything they don't want to.

Calm yourself; The ACU decided for whatever reasons to change the rules for B.T.C only....many clubs and centres jumped on the bandwagon.

You and our sport generally may benifit from understanding some of the contributing factors/ reasons why this has come about; I can only comment on what I am aware of it is as follows;

In our centre I can say that most of the clubs and centres are kept going by a lot of hard work for nothing by older folk. I would expect this to be a similar situation in many other centres. Most of these old fogeys are begging for youngsters to get involved. Most of these old fogeys also turn out week in week out to observe because youngsters seem to think it's somebody else's responsibilty. The old fogeys find it increasingly tedious to have to watch earnest youngsters make a "pigs ear out of a silk purse" in the sections and then be expected to be fair or get argued with or at least criticised behind their back.

In summary there is a problem; the point you are not getting is that those people who are giving and giving again for your sporting pleasure have reached a point of having given all they can for the sport they love with diminishing returns of pleasure. They are seeing (the purity or simplicity)of it decline to a point where only a few can do it properly and wanting to revert to something they know is workable.

We should all accept that some form of stopping or hesitation is established or inevitable as a part of modern trials, we all know that it isn't practical to use extra (time) controls to encourage riders not to fanny about at local or even national level as does the WTC.

In my post above yours I suggested that the keys to many of our problems are simple measures like marking sections where there is no benifit in stopping...like encouraging manufacturers to do some market research..(maybe we'd get better products), to promote sales based upon what most people are capable of rather than create aspirations of riding abilty few will attain.

The simple measure you Telecat and others who want stop allowed would be to bring sympathetic observers every week...better still ..do that and go to the meetings ..get your COC licence..set out and organise in a way that you see it being done... I would advise that these are simple things to do as they are "in house" problems you may also have to deal with the real world of insurances, land..(owners). parking,neigbours,shooters ,ramblers.SSSI's.H&S..banking, tax..accounts..etc etc. PS old fogey is nice way to describe myself.

Edited January 23, 2012 by chewy

[old trials fanatic]

Telecat you need to think about your argument before having it. Many times it has been made clear above that nobody is forcing all riders to do anything they don't want to.

Calm yourself; The ACU decided for whatever reasons to change the rules for B.T.C only....many clubs and centres jumped on the bandwagon.

You and our sport generally may benifit from understanding some of the contributing factors/ reasons why this has come about; I can only comment on what I am aware of it is as follows;

In our centre I can say that most of the clubs and centres are kept going by a lot of hard work for nothing by older folk. I would expect this to be a similar situation in many other centres. Most of these old fogeys are begging for youngsters to get involved. Most of these old fogeys also turn out week in week out to observe because youngsters seem to think it's somebody else's responsibilty. The old fogeys find it increasingly tedious to have to watch earnest youngsters make a "pigs ear out of a silk purse" in the sections and then be expected to be fair or get argued with or at least criticised behind their back.

In summary there is a problem; the point you are not getting is that those people who are giving and giving again for your sporting pleasure have reached a point of having given all they can for the sport they love with diminishing returns of pleasure. They are seeing (the purity or simplicity)of it decline to a point where only a few can do it properly and wanting to revert to something they know is workable.

We should all accept that some form of stopping or hesitation is established or inevitable as a part of modern trials, we all know that it isn't practical to use extra (time) controls to encourage riders not to fanny about at local or even national level as does the WTC.

In my post above yours I suggested that the keys to many of our problems are simple measures like marking sections where there is no benifit in stopping...like encouraging manufacturers to do some market research..(maybe we'd get better products), to promote sales based upon what most people are capable of rather than create aspirations of riding abilty few will attain.

The simple measure you Telecat and others who want stop allowed would be to bring sympathetic observers every week...better still ..do that and go to the meetings ..get your COC licence..set out and organise in a way that you see it being done... I would advise that these are simple things to do as they are "in house" problems you may also have to deal with the real world of insurances, land..(owners). parking,neigbours,shooters ,ramblers.SSSI's.H&S..banking, tax..accounts..etc etc. PS old fogey is nice way to describe myself.

I know exactly what you mean and agree wholehartedly especially the bit about them thinking its someone elses responsability. When, sadly it's every trial nowadays for our club, we have the usual lack of observers and the riders have to observe each other it's noticable that there are a "group" of people who never pick the board up and always leave it to someone else.

I always lay out so that there is no advantage for the rider to hop and bop and generally prat about in the section BUT THERE'S ALWAYS SOME YOUNG DIVI THAT DOES and amusingly it nearly always results in a loss of marks when a smooth rider choosing and sticking to a good line cleans it. Problem is because the rules allowed you to fanny about you didnt need to actually choose a line you just made it up as you went along and changed it every meter or so. I suppose they never learnt the skill. In fact a lot seem to lack the skills required to tackle off camber turns, slots, deep mud, greasy climbs etc etc just concentrating on riding over the same damn big rock all the time. Even to the point at one local venue where there is now a 10" at least deep groove worn over a sandstone outcrop because so many people have spent all day just doing that and they say kids today have a short attention span.

A lot of people keep saying it on here "get off your backside if you dont like it and practice what you preach. YOU organize a club and event and do it YOUR way!" but do we or will we ever see the youf element ACTUALLY do something apart from communal dummy spitting and temper tantrums. Dont hold your breath. Guess us old fogeys will keep plodding on providing the ungrateful with another days sport and something to moan about until we just think sod em all and give it all up as a bad joke.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Old trials fanatic

[telecat]

In case you haven't noticed. I don't actually ride.... I run YG's Website, collet the clubs championship scores, Observe and maintain and pay for my SON to ride. Hence stop whinging about giving time up!! I may not spend time laying out course but I do give up time for the sport!

Edited January 23, 2012 by Telecat

[axulsuv]

Bit my tongue before I posted my first thought .........

[chewy]

The only thing I noticed after 10 pages of acrimony was a one liner; " I'm not the one trying to force "All" riders to ride to rules they don't want to "

Many riders have taken the trouble to say they prefer no stop.

Is it just one guy who is the intended recipient of this statement?.

There is nothing within such a statement that resembles an effort to be constructive.

I have to conclude without reading through 10 pages of posts that this is a local issue... I'll leave you guys to do your laundry in public.

[axulsuv]

And where is BEaTABeta in all this ?

Glenn

Edited January 23, 2012 by axulsuv

[gasgasjamie]

BUT THERE'S ALWAYS SOME YOUNG DIVI THAT DOES

Now whilst I agree with yours and many others' point of view that perhaps the younger riders could do more to help their local clubs out, is this really the way to encourage them?

When I was younger I used to help out quite a lot, laying out trials and taking them down afterwards, and I used to really enjoy doing it. However, this was because the club encouraged me by being supportive to the younger riders who were coming through.

The art of not hopping too much is a skill, a skill that must be learnt and one that whilst learning, a rider will get wrong and hop too much. My local club takes a forward approach to this by teaching to riders the advantages of smooth riding, finding the grip and only hopping where it was helpful.

Now if the club had called me a 'young divi' when I was learning these skills I would of been far less inclined to help them out at the next trial.

Edited January 24, 2012 by GasGasJamie

[gizza5]

Wallace full is that the rules?

[old trials fanatic]

Now whilst I agree with yours and many others' point of view that perhaps the younger riders could do more to help their local clubs out, is this really the way to encourage them?

When I was younger I used to help out quite a lot, laying out trials and taking them down afterwards, and I used to really enjoy doing it. However, this was because the club encouraged me by being supportive to the younger riders who were coming through.

The art of not hopping too much is a skill, a skill that must be learnt and one that whilst learning, a rider will get wrong and hop too much. My local club takes a forward approach to this by teaching to riders the advantages of smooth riding, finding the grip and only hopping where it was helpful.

Now if the club had called me a 'young divi' when I was learning these skills I would of been far less inclined to help them out at the next trial.

What i was getting at was the old adage "if at first you dont suceed try try again." well when i was ski teaching i used to use a modified version of this. "If at first you dont suceed then try try again. But in a different way!" basically if the technique you are using doesnt result in the desired outcome then obviously you should modify the technique. Learn by watching others with special emphasis on the sucessful ones and learn from them. That was what i was refering to. I cant understand why the penny didnt drop and still doesnt for so many of the younger riders. OK if bouncing up and down like a demented pogo stick was actually resulting in the clean then fine but if it isnt then errrr ? Not rocket science is it? As i also said they obviously never bothered to learn the most basic of trials skills the ability to see a line. All this fannying about in a section does is reinforce their inability to aquire this so basic of skills.

Now as for encouraging the youf element if they ever show any interest in helping rest assured i and most people in the club would bend over backwards to encourage them but it is even a rarity to see one pick the observer board up to observe the next rider never mind help in organising etc. Just wish they did. When it comes to riding tips and advice my experience is you might as well talk to yourself as they just dont listen as youre just an old fart who knows bugger all. Strange that you keep beating them with your old fart technique though.

Your post makes a very valid point though and should anybody of any age offer to help i will be most supportive.

[old trials fanatic]

Notice Yorkshire Centre are now going No Stop

[copemech]

OK, so I found this snippit. Would this be stop or no-stop?(Point being, with no more delays than this it would allmost qualify for a scottish section clean) Now I tell you with the time limits in the sections they do not fu-- about on the top levels. I have no problem with it, yet the lesser lads will struggle to get through and likely fail it anyway.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=-UflkCnNd0w&feature=endscreen

[jimmyl]

would suggest multiple stops and a couple of going backwards?

[nigel dabster]

Wallace full is that the rules?

Always full and last year was no stop anyway.