the observer Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 Vintage/ Twin Shock trials has been held back for years by AHRMA. Let's show those AHRMA blockhaeds how it should be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motovintage Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 (edited) Now i know it doesnt effect me as i dont ride in the usa but why do you feel they need to drop the no stop? I would have thought it was totally appropriate for a twinshock organisation to run trials to no stop rules. If you run to stop allowed rules the sections will just get tighter and tighter to allow for all the bu66ering about and the steps will get bigger and bigger for the same reason. Trials clubs over here are rapidly coming to the conclusion that no stop is the way to go and all Classic clubs have been no stop for ever. Even the Scottish and Scott are no stop. I started trials in 1981 riding '70's & '80's twinshock bikes, the rules were stop and backing allowed, I'm ok with no stop as long as a stop is a 1 and not a 5. when you make a stop a 5 it starts to feel like a gate trials where you have a death blow 5 for a momentary pause. My riding style doesn't work with no stop, it's not fun to me. I can understand using the no stop rules on older bikes that were made to run under the old no stop rules. I ride early eighties twinshock bikes that were made when stop allowed rules were in effect. Also for those who compete on both twinshock & modern bikes it is hard to adjust your style for a twinshock event if you are used to riding stop rules. Edited December 15, 2011 by MotoVintage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony283 Posted December 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 Not to digress too far from the original point which was Ahrma's failure to listen to it's membership and wishes and their non acceptance of the machines that you choose to ride. The two Major US Vintage trials organizations both use No-Stop rules and as far as can be seen will continue to do so. The "2 Handed clutch mechanisms" of most vintage trials machines and heavy flywheels do not lend themselves to hopping and bopping about as apart from the 300lb weight of an old'un compared to 140lb and hydraulic clutch and brakes of the latest machines the vintage riders wish to ride the machines in the way they were intended and to the rules of the period. It would seem neither Ahrma nor ITSA offer you the style of riding you wish so I would assume you are better served at a State modern event where the challenge to beat a modern bike on the same course under stop rules would be very satisfying. Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motovintage Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 It would seem neither Ahrma nor ITSA offer you the style of riding you wish so I would assume you are better served at a State modern event where the challenge to beat a modern bike on the same course under stop rules would be very satisfying. Tony Fortunatly the Texas State Series has different levels of Vintage Twinshock classes and follows the same rules as the modern bikes, I would NOT be interested in competing against modern bikes on a twinshock bike. I thought ITSA was my savior from the hardend AHRMA rules but as long as the majority of the people who ride ITSA are happy with no stop then so be it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 Fortunatly the Texas State Series has different levels of Vintage Twinshock classes and follows the same rules as the modern bikes, I would NOT be interested in competing against modern bikes on a twinshock bike. I thought ITSA was my savior from the hardend AHRMA rules but as long as the majority of the people who ride ITSA are happy with no stop then so be it! Would it not be possible to learn to ride to no stop? after all you must have learnt to ride stopping and bopping? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 I ride early eighties twinshock bikes that were made when stop allowed rules were in effect. You must have hands like a bear if you find early eighties clutches suitable in standard form for one finger !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jse Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 You must have hands like a bear if you find early eighties clutches suitable in standard form for one finger !! Most of us that rode those bikes then had arms like a fiddler crab..... Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motovintage Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 (edited) Would it not be possible to learn to ride to no stop? after all you must have learnt to ride stopping and bopping? think I'm too old to relearn how to ride, will get through it take my 5's and have some fun riding my old bike, by the way I can't hop, never could, can't back up either, I just can't ride with out stoping. Edited December 15, 2011 by MotoVintage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgshannon Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 (edited) Since Stop vs No Stop seems to have leaked over into this thread, from the British Championship thread, I thought I would add an interesting observation. As I stated earlier in this thread, our club recently put on a vintage twinshock event, that was supposed to have been AHRMA. When they failed to participate, we turned it into a fun event. With that, we opened up the event to modern bikes, but they still had to use the vintage, no stop rules. Watching all the stop riders suddenly having to cope with the no stop rules was interesting. For the most part, when they did stop, it was simply because they were lost in the section. In other words, they needed that pause to look up, digest the markers, and try to figure out where to go next. The ability to walk a section, predigest all it's subtleties, plan a successful route from section start to end, and then jump on your bike and ride it, is a skill set that I believe is ever bit as impressive as the ability to stop, hop and bop. Here we were in less tight, no stop flowing sections, and these guys didn't even know how to use the boundaries they had been given. Properly planned, you could "ride" the section, with a smooth flow. But, you had to think several turns ahead, plan your route, and use every bit of the boundaries you had been given. The stop, hop & bop guys could not even think on that level. Instead, they would ride themselves into a bind and have to stop or paddle. Mind you, the vintage bikes are flowing through, and the modern guys can't get through the section without dabs, or stopping for a five. Watch those same folks in a modern trial, and you see something else interesting. Most of the time, they are not really all that good at stop and hop either. They ride themselves into a bind, then it is hop, hop, hop, dab. Meanwhile, the guys without hopping skills "rode" smoothly through the very same section. Again, you see that ability to walk a section, plan a total route from beginning to end, and then ride it. In general, I think it is a fairly small minority of stop and hop riders that are really good at it. Meanwhile, they stink at flowing no stop riding, as well. Edited December 15, 2011 by DGShannon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 Since Stop vs No Stop seems to have leaked over into this thread, from the British Championship thread, I thought I would add an interesting observation. As I stated earlier in this thread, our club recently put on a vintage twinshock event, that was supposed to have been AHRMA. When they failed to participate, we turned it into a fun event. With that, we opened up the event to modern bikes, but they still had to use the vintage, no stop rules. Watching all the stop riders suddenly having to cope with the no stop rules was interesting. For the most part, when they did stop, it was simply because they were lost in the section. In other words, they needed that pause to look up, digest the markers, and try to figure out where to go next. The ability to walk a section, predigest all it's subtleties, plan a successful route from section start to end, and then jump on your bike and ride it, is a skill set that I believe is ever bit as impressive as the ability to stop, hop and bop. Here we were in less tight, no stop flowing sections, and these guys didn't even know how to use the boundaries they had been given. Properly planned, you could "ride" the section, with a smooth flow. But, you had to think several turns ahead, plan your route, and use every bit of the boundaries you had been given. The stop, hop & bop guys could not even think on that level. Instead, they would ride themselves into a bind and have to stop or paddle. Mind you, the vintage bikes are flowing through, and the modern guys can't get through the section without dabs, or stopping for a five. Watch those same folks in a modern trial, and you see something else interesting. Most of the time, they are not really all that good at stop and hop either. They ride themselves into a bind, then it is hop, hop, hop, dab. Meanwhile, the guys without hopping skills "rode" smoothly through the very same section. Again, you see that ability to walk a section, plan a total route from beginning to end, and then ride it. In general, I think it is a fairly small minority of stop and hop riders that are really good at it. Meanwhile, they stink at flowing no stop riding, as well. Good luck to the ITSA by the way. More than a few people have been saying their rules about machines would be the way to go over here. Not sure about that myself but i am trying to keep an open mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axulsuv Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 (edited) MV... These are the ITSA riding rules copied and pasted from their website... Make of them what you will... Section Scoring Definitions Ø Clean: No points (zero). The rider completes the section without committing an error. Ø Dab: Any intentional contact (dab) between a rider's foot, or any other part of the body, and a supporting surface or object either inside or outside the boundary is scored one point. Dragging a dab is considered a 3. Ø Touching both feet to the ground at the same time while astride the machine = 2 points (one dab for each foot). Ø Footing: three or more dabs, or paddling with both feet = 3 points. Ø Failure: The following instances during a section attempt will result in a score of five points: o Stopping with a foot down o Stopping and balance will be permitted. o Ribbon out-of-bounds: a machine may ride on a ribbon, but not beyond it. There must be ground visible between the inner edge of the tire and wrong side of the ribbon to be considered a 5. This also applies to the ribbon used in a split gate. o Crossing own wheel track, one or both. o Displacement of markers within section. o Both feet on same side of motorcycle. I personally don't think it can get any simpler than That. And yes Bob himself gave me a 5 for doing a rollback but it was stated plainly in the riders meeting and I forgot ... Get out to a ITSA event and ENJOY yourself ! Glenn Edited December 15, 2011 by axulsuv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 Most of us that rode those bikes then had arms like a fiddler crab..... Jon Fiddler crab ? Like this ? Of course in America they must have the clutch on the right ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 MV... These are the ITSA riding rules copied and pasted from their website... Make of them what you will... Section Scoring Definitions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motovintage Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 What if the dab i had wasnt intentional ? well it does say Any intentional contact (dab) Plus if stopping and balance is allowed then how can moto vintage complain? Your right OTF I can live with that, I thought they were no stop period Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motovintage Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 MV... These are the ITSA riding rules copied and pasted from their website... Make of them what you will... Section Scoring Definitions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.