ishy Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 I remember Appy's buying all the left over TY 125's in the mid eighties and selling them off around 500 quid each, great deal for a new bike, said same bike is probably worth twice as much now. It wouldn't take him long to shift 1800 4rt's it all comes down to the right price. Some bean counter got it wrong when forecasting sales of a new fuel injected four stroke, predicting sales way higher than actual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totalshell Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 did the bean counter get it worng or right infact production costs over a shorter period would have been greatkyt reduced and all the stuff was bought and paid for in 2004... so no brainer really if they had the cash to hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin belair Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 (edited) There is a strong rumor in Spain that Montesa-Honda still has 1,800 4RT (2004 model) stored for sale... This can explain why there is not a new model since then, and also why Honda is gradually trying to quit trials. Bou is still the best Montesa´s salesman, but I bet when those 1,800 bikes are sold at last, Montesa will be history... Really ??? Greeves, I am surprised that you would write something like this. You do yourself a disservice Sir. We live in an age of conspiracy theories. People will believe anything. I was at the factory in Spain in October. I wish I could have told them about this rumor. We would have all had a good laugh. Also the 2004 was the 315R model not 4RT. Edited January 29, 2012 by Martin Belair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sideup Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 (edited) quote: " I wish I could have told them about this rumor. " Martin, But Montesa must understand how this situation looks from us long time trials riders, outside looking in. I still have my 06 Repsol in my garage. In December I purchased a new 2.9 Sherco and to me there is a world of difference in what has been developed in the last few years. I find the lighter bike just simply easier to ride and less effort is required, which "to me" equals more fun. I am excited about riding again. Just for curiosity we threw the 4 RT and the Sherco on the un-scientific bathroom scales front and back. The 4 RT was 12.8 lbs heavier in the front and 6.2 lbs heavier in the rear. The marketing and development guys must see the problem they have, be it perception or reality. It's almost like comparing the 4 RT to a old TL250. Almost I said. Sure at our club level the rider is the main ingredient to riding the 4 RT or the new two strokes competitively. For me I just can't deny the fun factor of the lighter two stoke. NO ONE will ever questions the Montesa/Honda quality. Montesa has to throw us a bone, cause the Bones we eaten have passed threw are digestive track some time ago, and you know what that equals. Jack B. PNW Edited January 29, 2012 by sideup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin belair Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 quote: " I wish I could have told them about this rumor. " Martin, But Montesa must understand how this situation looks from us long time trials riders, outside looking in. Jack B. PNW Hi Jack, its good to hear from you. When it comes to saying that "Montesa is over due for a new model" you can put me at the head of that line. Yes, the Montesa faithful have been tested, but I have faith in Montesa/Honda. The reality is that the current situation has left the door open for the rumor mill to flourish. This latest one by Greeves is comical. Sorry Greeves but you did it to yourself. Jack, you know as well as I do that there are those people in this business that manufacture rumors and spread them. For some, it a way of doing business. A good friend told me a story about his first job at a motorcycle shop. The owner instructed him to always tell people that the motorcycle shop down the street was about to go out of business. In the end it was them that went out of business. Some say rumors are a part of human nature. I say its a choice. I like what Socrates had to say about rumors. The fact is that Montesa (since 1969) and Honda (since 1974) have produced trials bikes longer than anyone else. I have faith in Montesa/Honda and I know that the rumor mongers and conspiracy theorists will be proven wrong. Martin PS say Hi to FujiKirk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greeves Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 (edited) Really ??? Greeves, I am surprised that you would write something like this. You do yourself a disservice Sir. We live in an age of conspiracy theories. People will believe anything. I was at the factory in Spain in October. I wish I could have told them about this rumor. We would have all had a good laugh. Also the 2004 was the 315R model not 4RT. You were in October in the factory? Really ??? Good for you. I am doing myself a disservice? I don Edited January 29, 2012 by Greeves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 There is a strong rumor in Spain that Montesa-Honda still has 1,800 4RT (2004 model) stored for sale... This can explain why there is not a new model since then, and also why Honda is gradually trying to quit trials. Bou is still the best Montesa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyl Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 04 4rt - Didn't come out until 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin belair Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 (edited) You were in October in the factory? Really ??? Good for you. I am doing myself a disservice? I don´t think so, Honda will quit sooner or later, and we will see what happens with Montesa, I don´t know why should I keep silent what even Montesa workers say openly. 4RT was developed and started to produce parts in 2004. Made it´s presentations 2005. Montesa Honda fired November 2009, 180 of the 340 workers. The 160 reamining are producing and painting plastic parts for Honda. In the next times you will see changes. Belive it or not. Edit to ask you Martin: Why your aggressive attitude? Do you have a personal interest in Montesa or you are just a forum bully? Greeves, I have no tolerance for rumor spreaders. If you are going to spread false rumors about Montesa I am willing to call you out on it, every time. If you don't like your comments being scrutinized here then you to be more careful what you say. Aggressive defense perhaps, bully no. Since you asked, my interest in Montesa began as friends in 1969 when we met then export manager Sr. Modesto Sole at a trials here in California. Over the years this friendship with the people of Montesa and the Permanyer family evolved, from facotry rider in US and Europe to employee at Montesa factory in Esplugues to Importer for the US market. I think it is reasonable for me to defend my friends and the truth. I make no claim to know everything about Montesa/Honda but I do know that what you said is not true. Time will tell and we may revisit this thread in the future to see who was right. Martin Edited January 29, 2012 by Martin Belair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benbeta23 Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 There is a strong rumor in Spain that Montesa-Honda still has 1,800 4RT (2004 model) stored for sale... This can explain why there is not a new model since then, and also why Honda is gradually trying to quit trials. Bou is still the best Montesa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin belair Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 I've heard this as well, As have loads of people. 1,800 is a lot of bikes to have sat about, I thought they were 09 standards and repsol's? I didn't think they were 05's. Eventually Honda will pull out of trials, Just nobody knows when. Ben, there was a quantity of left over 2009's. They were all sold during 2010/11. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyt Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 You were in October in the factory? Really ??? Good for you. I am doing myself a disservice? I don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sideup Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Hi Jack, its good to hear from you. When it comes to saying that "Montesa is over due for a new model" you can put me at the head of that line. Yes, the Montesa faithful have been tested, but I have faith in Montesa/Honda. The reality is that the current situation has left the door open for the rumor mill to flourish. This latest one by Greeves is comical. Sorry Greeves but you did it to yourself. Jack, you know as well as I do that there are those people in this business that manufacture rumors and spread them. For some, it a way of doing business. A good friend told me a story about his first job at a motorcycle shop. The owner instructed him to always tell people that the motorcycle shop down the street was about to go out of business. In the end it was them that went out of business. Some say rumors are a part of human nature. I say its a choice. I like what Socrates had to say about rumors. The fact is that Montesa (since 1969) and Honda (since 1974) have produced trials bikes longer than anyone else. I have faith in Montesa/Honda and I know that the rumor mongers and conspiracy theorists will be proven wrong. Martin PS say Hi to FujiKirk Martin, I understand your frustration with rumor mills. As you say you don't know everything about Honda / Montesa, but when you know somthing is not true I , for one, am glad you speak out. I always enjoy your posts. Speaking of FujiKirk, he and I rode both days this weekend. Today it couldn't have rained any harder. What other sport could you have a great time in the pouring rain with your friends, get covered in mud, but still stay relatively comfortable. Beats sitting in the house all day and watching football. Take care Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copemech Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 I wish they did have a lot of '04 315's stocked up and let them out for a song! It was a cracking bike if a bit lumpy! I would like to have one! Not a lot of them about in the US. Martin can tell us just how many. Oh, and I think he still recalls how to ride them! You should do that, Martin! Ride some on the SR tour and kick some butt! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greeves Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 I think it is reasonable for me to defend my friends and the truth. I make no claim to know everything about Montesa/Honda but I do know that what you said is not true. Time will tell and we may revisit this thread in the future to see who was right. Martin Being 10,000 km. away and really not knowing a word about who you are talking with, I consider your first replies quite aggressive and clearly, in my opinion of course, trying to intimidate, ridicule and threaten me to get my silence. Maybe as you say it is just Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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