bikeng Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 (edited) I have read so many posts saying the later bikes are better, particularly the latest black framed models, but what are the exact changes? Someone said there was a new camshaft for '07. This could indeed drastically affect the rideability of the bike, but could that not be retro fitted to e.g. an '05? Likewise the clutch could be updated with the later parts? I'd prefer a silver framed bike as it's likely to look better for longer, but how much better are the later bikes and can an earlier bike be made as good? Needless to say, I'm looking to buy a 4RT and so would really appreciate some info from those who know what the changes are. Edited December 28, 2011 by BiKenG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02-apr Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 The man from here http://www.msport.uk.com/ often posts on this site, probably knows all there is to know about the 4RT and is not a million miles away from you. I have no connection with Msport by the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjums Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Hi NiKenG I don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyl Posted December 29, 2011 Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 No major changes though the years but every year a little better. 05's benefit from clutch plate and clutch master cyl from later bikes or after market. 09 on handle differently - not sure if steering geometry change through frame mod or longer rear shock but definately seem better. 09 on have different exhaust. Fat bars also but these may of appeared on 08s as well Early repsols where the previous years bike with add ons. Not sure about current bikes. Any bike can be upgraded and PTB is a worthwhile addition with a map to suit your style and abilty. Early fuel pumps and kickstart stop failures are the only major faults I am aware of. I'm sure Munch and other can maybe confirm above and add other changes. Still a competitive and very reliable bike especially on more traditional type of going. Hope you find a good one and enjoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikeng Posted December 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 No major changes though the years but every year a little better. 05's benefit from clutch plate and clutch master cyl from later bikes or after market. 09 on handle differently - not sure if steering geometry change through frame mod or longer rear shock but definately seem better. 09 on have different exhaust. Fat bars also but these may of appeared on 08s as well Early repsols where the previous years bike with add ons. Not sure about current bikes. Any bike can be upgraded and PTB is a worthwhile addition with a map to suit your style and abilty. Early fuel pumps and kickstart stop failures are the only major faults I am aware of. I'm sure Munch and other can maybe confirm above and add other changes. Still a competitive and very reliable bike especially on more traditional type of going. Hope you find a good one and enjoy Very helpful, thanks. Looks like most, if not all of the changes can be incorporated into the earlier bikes. Unless the frame geometry did actually change. Can anyone confirm whether this was the case or was it just a different length shock? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantic303 Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 Very helpful, thanks. Looks like most, if not all of the changes can be incorporated into the earlier bikes. Unless the frame geometry did actually change. Can anyone confirm whether this was the case or was it just a different length shock? Frame has no changes over the years, only the frontfork has internal changes. And to end all fairy tales the camshaft is exactly the same as the 2005 camshaft at least till 2009. I have measured both and they are exactly the same. If you want an other camshaft you have to buy the HRC racing cam deliverd with the 260 kit. The only big difference is the ECU. A 2009 or later ECU on a 2005 model is so different. A reprogrammable ECU is a nice addition. To change the frame geometry there are modified linkplates available on the market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikeng Posted December 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 (edited) Frame has no changes over the years, only the frontfork has internal changes. And to end all fairy tales the camshaft is exactly the same as the 2005 camshaft at least till 2009. I have measured both and they are exactly the same. If you want an other camshaft you have to buy the HRC racing cam deliverd with the 260 kit. The only big difference is the ECU. A 2009 or later ECU on a 2005 model is so different. A reprogrammable ECU is a nice addition. To change the frame geometry there are modified linkplates available on the market. Interesting. So really, stick fat bars and a PTB on a 2005 and with the right map (ignoring minor fork mods), it'll be as good as the later black framed versions? Just to explain, I'm not after the ultimate in performance as I'm a complete trials novice (although many years other off roading experience). I'm therefore looking for the easiest bike to ride and it looks like an early bike can be as good as a later one in that respect which is good news as far as I'm concerned. Edited December 31, 2011 by BiKenG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyboxer Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 Interesting. So really, stick fat bars and a PTB on a 2005 and with the right map (ignoring minor fork mods), it'll be as good as the later black framed versions? Just to explain, I'm not after the ultimate in performance as I'm a complete trials novice (although many years other off roading experience). I'm therefore looking for the easiest bike to ride and it looks like an early bike can be as good as a later one in that respect which is good news as far as I'm concerned. The 4RT isn't the easiest bike to ride Trials on, but it may be one of the most rewarding to own and ride It has its quirks, sometimes runs out of grip when spun out, is heavier than most of its peers and won't turn as well However when you learn how to ride it, the pleasure is all yours Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nelly1 Posted January 2, 2012 Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 are they as easy to ride as a 315 i have one (315) but would like to change it for a 4rt but il struggle to ride it if its harder im a poor rider on the 315 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyboxer Posted January 2, 2012 Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 are they as easy to ride as a 315 i have one (315) but would like to change it for a 4rt but il struggle to ride it if its harder im a poor rider on the 315 Having had both (a 2004 315R) and 4 - 4RT's, I find the 4RT better for me mainly because it fuels perfectly and is predictable The only problem is knowing when it will spin out, due to too many revs v grip available - once you master this it's fine The problem with my 315R was on 2nd and 3rd lap and it was hot, the Dell'Orto wouldn't fuel the same on any 2 sections and I tried loads of carb settings/jets So the 4RT is the same all the time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck4788 Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) are they as easy to ride as a 315 i have one (315) but would like to change it for a 4rt but il struggle to ride it if its harder im a poor rider on the 315 I have a 315R and a friend has a 4RT. But to understand my comments you need to know that we have been trail riding for 40 years and our bikes of choice for trail riding have almost always been 4Ts. My 315R has the smoothest clutch action of any bike I have owned or ridden, my friend 4RT has one of the worst clutches I've ever ridden, yet these clutches are the same size as the CR125/250 clutch, just different frictions. Go figure. The EFI of the 4RT is golden, always the same hot or cold. I'm in the process of replacing the Delorto 315 carb with a Keihin PWK carb. The 4RT is harder starting than the 315R. Power delivery of both bikes are classic 2T or 4T. In spite of the Delorto carb issues my 315 doesn't flame out on a slow steep technical section. And is easier to start. The 315R is lighter, with a lower CG, and has a smoother bottom end response than the 4RT and that does influence your ability to get thru a section. Other than the above the chassis and suspension appear to be the same. I'll opine that the chassis is more rigid than some other Trials bikes, the suspension is adjustable cartridge Showa, and the quality of components better than others. It is a Honda, if that means anything. I'm keeping my 315R and my friend is talking about a 2T Trials bike, but he will continue using the 4Ts with a long ride kit for technical trails. So for me the 315R is easier to ride and a better Trials bike than the 4RT. Edited January 10, 2012 by chuck4788 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nelly1 Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 thankyou im sticking with my trusty old 315 love riding it and it never breaks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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