jon v8 Posted January 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 It would be interesting to see pictures of the rest of the frame Guy I've added some more pics to the Picasa album,the silver coloured one is one of my frames for comparison.I quickly checked the steering head angle tonight,I think its slightly steeper than the original Yam frame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 The head angle wasn't altered on them - if it looks like it is it's probably an illusion. Only works bikes, if any, had altered steering. The side view pictures of each frame are very good for a comparison. You can see the difference at the rear of the frame but it is so difficult to work out how it was done - and how they actually arrived at that solution. The frame tubes from footrests up to the back loop aren't altered, only the forward facing ones to match the higher front engine mount. Clever stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon v8 Posted January 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 The head angle wasn't altered on them - if it looks like it is it's probably an illusion. Only works bikes, if any, had altered steering. The side view pictures of each frame are very good for a comparison. You can see the difference at the rear of the frame but it is so difficult to work out how it was done - and how they actually arrived at that solution. The frame tubes from footrests up to the back loop aren't altered, only the forward facing ones to match the higher front engine mount. Clever stuff Tis clever stuff - its got me interested now,like I said it was only quick check tonight before I walked home.(I had just noticed it was raining again...) I'm going to have a good measure up and proper close up look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 I spent ages looking at my frame and a standard one and this is what I could see (or thought I could see...) The rear tubes up to the rear loop are unaltered. The front tubes up to the seat are shortened somewhere and the seat rails are detached from the main tube that runs under the tank. The rear subframe is now completely free from the rest of the frame at this point. The subframe is then lifted up and tilted forward and reattached to the main frame tube. The way the rear tubes are attached to the rear of the main tube, just behind the area where the extension bracing from the toolbox ends, that whole area is different in appearance. That's how it appeared to me when I was trying to work it out. I found it facinating, wondering how they arrived at this solution. Having had one of each and ridden them back to back, I actually thought the Yam framed bike was the better version of the two and rode nicer. It was lighter on the front and more flickable. The Godden framed bike was front heavy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon v8 Posted January 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 Well just to muddy the water even further I decided to make a jig this afternoon to fit the Majesty frame.I only had a couple of hours but I got far enough to take the Maj frame out and sit the Yam one in instead.I made the jig to sit the frame in upside down as its easier to work on and also easier to see how it was changed. As soon as I sat the Yam frame in the jig I could see a problem,it wouldnt sit flat.Ten minutes of looking,measuring and head scratching and I think I can see what is going on. The steering angle is steeper,on this frame it was done by cutting out a section of the spark plug cutout.I think this is why the cutout bit is cut right through at the front and not at the back.They then just bent the top tube down - it clearly isnt straight,then welded the spark plug cutout back together.So the next step is to work out how much to cut out and bend the top tube. I had toyed with the idea of making a jig before,and with the frames side by side I couldnt resist it,looks like alot of work,but I think that only by making one will I actually learn fully how it was done.I have no intention of trying to make any money from doing this,its just that I've read so much about them - alot of which doesnt really add up.(And its all good practice for the hardtail conversion I have planned for my 750 Honda bobber project...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
furse Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 I bet theres someone out there reading this laughing cos they now exactly how much is chopped and added etc! The hours we must spend on bikes, its all good fun, keep it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samyam Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 the head angle was not altered on the modified yamaha frame and the main back bone was left alone.The front down tubes were bent slightly back ,the rear 2 engine mounts were removed still attached to frame where the swinging arm and foot rest are located ,This was cut down where it joins the main back bone .the 2 rails that run down from the top rear shock mounts we bent supwards the section behind the toolbox had the lsft side cut out and a bit welded back in to make room for the spark plug and cap to fit in to .The swinging arm was not modified apart fron a strip welded on the top front section to attach a chain pad . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 the head angle was not altered on the modified yamaha frame and the main back bone was left alone.The front down tubes were bent slightly back ,the rear 2 engine mounts were removed still attached to frame where the swinging arm and foot rest are located ,This was cut down where it joins the main back bone .the 2 rails that run down from the top rear shock mounts we bent supwards the section behind the toolbox had the lsft side cut out and a bit welded back in to make room for the spark plug and cap to fit in to .The swinging arm was not modified apart fron a strip welded on the top front section to attach a chain pad . And he should know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon v8 Posted January 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 Well now I'm even more confused ! Welcome to TC Samyam,good to have your input,OTF obviously knows who you are and your knowledge of the topic. Can I please state I have no wish whatsoever to upset ANYONE - I'm just trying to work out what was done,and what effect it had in the way they ride. But..... tonight I have just added more pics to my web album showing how the swinging arm is changed from a standard one.My mate dropped it off this afternoon for me to beat the rusted spindle out.We were discussing the whole Majesty thing and concluded that there is no conclusion ! My slant on it is that John Shirt would not have stuck rigidly to one exact layout,maybe even altering bikes to suit individual riders ? Also there is nothing to say that the particular one I've been working on has not been modified since its original conversion - I've changed just about every bike I've ever had. Reading what Samyam states clearly is very specific,but directly opposed to an article recently co written by John Shirt where he states that the steering head angle was 'tweaked' and the swinging arm was altered to improve the rear suspension - now you can see why I'm confused ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 SamYam is most likely the one that did the cutting and welding on the frames in Shirt's workshop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feetupfun Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Jon have another read of the article. It says "steering head angle was tweaked" and "rear shocks angled". The steering head angle change claimed was most likely due to the rear end being slightly higher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinm Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Jon have another read of the article. It says "steering head angle was tweaked" and "rear shocks angled". The steering head angle change claimed was most likely due to the rear end being slightly higher. Loooking at the photos on Jons album, I reckon that the Yellow frame is bent. If you hit the front end hard enough, the back bone would bend and the steering angle would tuck back in. There is no longer any support to the head area, as there is now a weak spot where the tubes have been chopped to clear the plug. I have seen the same thing a few times before on both SWM's and Bultacos. Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy m Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Did I read some where that there is/was a list of frames that were modified. Register of numbers?? (How many) Most if not all bikes that have sold or people have tried to sell recently have been Goddens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon v8 Posted January 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) Well today I spoke to John Shirt JNR,who was very friendly and helpful.Unfortunately his father is out of the country for a while, but John JNR assured me he would be happy to answer my questions.He did say there were no documents etc and all the info is in Johns mind. He is the man who knows,so until then I'm going to keep an open mind ! P.S. Bo, could you post up a photo of the other side of the toolbox area on your Majesty and check the top tube with a straight edge ? No pressure !! See you at Golden valley on the 29th ? I'll be on my Yam as the Ariel is in dry dock..... Edited January 10, 2012 by jon v8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy m Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 I will have to take a pic,not got one of that side, can't take it until Saturday as I am out at 7am and back at 5pm (dark) and bike is buried in garden shed under loads of stuff, but will do it. It keeps going to the back of the queue, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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