wallo Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 Why oh why have you changed the rules yet again for your series? Why do you keep on trying to kill off the big British bikes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_scorpa3 Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 Why oh why have you changed the rules yet again for your series? Why do you keep on trying to kill off the big British bikes? The trail bikes used to be a good 'support' class too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrc1 Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 It seems the trailbike class is dropped completely for 2012. Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallo Posted January 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 The new classes are: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02-apr Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 I'm curious about this, does "as at the time of manufacture" prevent or allow the fitment of a period drum from another make? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 I'm curious about this, does "as at the time of manufacture" prevent or allow the fitment of a period drum from another make? It's Allowed. As regards the big British bikes, what's changed? I can see they've altered the classes but there are still two routes, you can still ride a pre-unit on either and the best performance on a 2-stroke, unit and pre-unit at the end of the series will get an award, so where's the problem? I can see there is no dedicated pre-unit class in each event anymore but that doesn't prevent you getting out there for the enjoyment of riding your pre-units in a big single lap trial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon v8 Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 The new classes are: CLASS 1 - Pre Unit Rigids- Pre 65 CLASS 2 - British Pre 70 Pre-Unit /Unit/2Stroke ( Twinshocks ) CLASS 3 Machines with twinshock rear suspension and drum brakes as at the time of manufacture which are not eligible for class 2 CLASS 4 Sidecar machines eligible for classes 1,2 and 3 All the above to be run on the EASY route CLASS 5 British Pre 70 Pre Unit/Unit /2 Stroke (Twinshocks) CLASS 6 Machines with twinshock rear suspension and drum brakes as at the time of manufacture which are not eligible for class 5 The above classes to be run on the HARD route. Classes 1, 2 & 5 must have British Engine, Carburettor, Forks (Max 35mm ) and hubs, Original or Replica Frame I was thinking about this yesterday when riding around at the Sam Cooper,seems very unfair to lump Pre unit springers in amongst Cubs,Dot's,James and Fanny B's in class 2. What chance does even a good rider have on a big four stroke against a bike half its weight ? It cant be encouraging - esp if you have to travel a long way to some events,it does smack of showing little interest in big bikes.Having a trial or series of trials that has big bikes in mind will also keep the sections sensible too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 I agree, can't remember why it was changed from having a seperate pre-unit class but it makes no sense for someone riding a big pre-unit having to compete in the same championship class as one of the lightweight 2-strokes - especially on tight fiddly sections that suit Bantams, James, Dot etc. Time to give them back their own class, even if it's poorly supported at first. Competing against similar bikes in their own class may encourage others back out. This should apply to both hard and easy routes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon v8 Posted May 20, 2014 Report Share Posted May 20, 2014 That would sort it,to me having plenty of big four stroke bikes goes a long way to keeping Pre65 alive. My Ariel is still at 54" wheelbase etc,so no way would it,(Or me )have a chance on sections set out to cater for a majority of lightweights.To buy a Bartram frame,trick forks,hubs etc,etc would cost a few thousand.But without a class that gives it a fair chance it can stay in the shed.... How many others must be thinking the same way,plus we four stroke fans are all getting older - I'll be 50 next year and I only know two riders younger than me that regularly ride big bikes.The classes need sorting out to keep the bikes being used. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
16cs ajs Posted October 26, 2014 Report Share Posted October 26, 2014 As always Deryk, your retrospective, first hand experiences, provoke contemplation of the past and concern for the future. With the inevitable passage of time, we have to accept change, however painful. I well remember admiring Pete Robson, manfully riding his girder rigid Levis through sections at Scarborough 2 day & Yorks Classic Captain's trial, while I took the easier option of riding a Cub or Cotton. How many girder rigids or genuine, springer pre units are regularly seen in competition now? As the experienced older riders, understandably now chose to compete on progressively lighter more nimble bikes, witnessed by the recent proliferation of trick Bantams and younger entrants prefer high spec two strikes, I fear for the future of larger capacity four strikes. Some clubs, such as YCMCC & Poachers, strive to encourage pre units, with limited success. It is certainly no fault of "Sam the Man" who stayed faithful to large capacity pre units in particular & 4 strikes in general that current classic trials and their classes favour trick, lightweights at the expense of proper pre 65s! We can only hope that everything goes in cycles. However my bet would be the growth of twin shocks and air cooled monos, for a host of depressing but sadly irrefutable reasons, including price, availability & suitability to increasingly harder sections. On this occasion, I really would like to be proven wrong. Time, as they say, will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aawil Posted October 26, 2014 Report Share Posted October 26, 2014 having just got the regs for next years talmag trial the general rules make interesting reading , which if used on all classic trials would stop a lot of the trick bikes overnight, i assume that the t.a,l.m.a.g. will not object to me quoting from the regs, general . ignition systems, must be either conventional magneto or coil ign of the period. ELECTRONIC SYSTEMS WILL NOT BE ALLOWED. this one rule would be interesting if it was enforced, forks must be of a type manufactured or fitted before 31 dec 1964. with the general basis that engine,gearbox ,frame forks hubs ign and carburettor must be of apre 1965 type ,specials accepted providing they are of parts manufactored before dec 1964, as i am now not allowed to ride the talmag as i am riding a greeves trials outfit which being a twostroke is not eligible i thought i might offer my services to help out with the scrutineering, this would be very interesting,( i can see the arguments already ) if all organisers used this sensible set up and back to the classic one lap 30 to 50 miles with one route for all li would come out and ride a lot more and my old mate deryk would have a smile on his face, 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon v8 Posted October 26, 2014 Report Share Posted October 26, 2014 I have just received my regs for the Talmag,interesting that they require an AMCA day liecence - why ? No other AMCA trials I have ever ridden or organised have needed one... The answer to getting old pre unit bikes back out is in the sections - nothing more nothing less.You can fiddle around all you like with classes and rules.The truth is that the,(Ageing) bulk of owners of these bikes are now scared off by trials that would intimidate them.Young people just don't seem to be interested in either fixing up or riding old bangers.Banning electronic ignition frankly is helping nobody. While I was running Bath Classic trials I welcomed ANYONE who came along with a British bike,no matter how original or trick it was.(If I had my way their entry would have been free.)Put in sensible sections and spread the word around - people will come and ride them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aawil Posted October 26, 2014 Report Share Posted October 26, 2014 jon you get me wrong my solution is as yours. one route with sensible sections to suit the average clubman wide enough for us sidecar crews with a good ride between sections ,in fact just like the early sm series, which i thought was great to ride and also the friendships made are still valid , my comment about me helping out scrutineering was a tounge in cheek comment but it would be fun to exclude a (i think) majority of the bikes. i have given up riding my rigid panther outfit in the talmag as sitting rocking on the crankcase at the top of the steep climbs on lots of sections gets a bit annoying , i am sure when i started riding chairs 42 years ago this problem did not happen, so either my bikes have lost their ground clearance , or perhaps the organisers have made the sections harder ,i know the answer . will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aawil Posted October 27, 2014 Report Share Posted October 27, 2014 it seems that we are all on the same side in this as i am cutting down on my work next year i will be in a position to offer help to any norfolk /suffolk clubs to lay out suitable sections that will ok for classic bikes and sidecars, in fact i think i still have a sackfull of red/blue/white section markers tucked away somewhere left over from my days as trials secetary of the north east london mcc, so if you need help just let me know .. will 01362 667859. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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