"Trick-Shocks" Is This The Way To Go?

[totalshell]

we ( classic trails as a genre) do not need a b'stard class this weekends talmag and 85 riding at the yorks classic event this weekend prove that competative pre65 is as popular as ever and certainly the quality of bikes in yorkshire was perhaps the highest i have ever seen. Certainly the older stalwarts are not as numerous as they were 15 years ago but niether are events the home of the over 50's many if not most are in thier 40's and a significant minority even younger.

the std of riding has advanced beyond recognition as have the sts of bike building and preparation. trials is a relatively 'good value' motorsport but be under no illusion it is not cheap and pre 65 is certainly not a cheap version it can still though provide a good value ride.

[old trials fanatic]

we ( classic trails as a genre) do not need a b'stard class this weekends talmag and 85 riding at the yorks classic event this weekend prove that competative pre65 is as popular as ever and certainly the quality of bikes in yorkshire was perhaps the highest i have ever seen. Certainly the older stalwarts are not as numerous as they were 15 years ago but niether are events the home of the over 50's many if not most are in thier 40's and a significant minority even younger.

the std of riding has advanced beyond recognition as have the sts of bike building and preparation. trials is a relatively 'good value' motorsport but be under no illusion it is not cheap and pre 65 is certainly not a cheap version it can still though provide a good value ride.

Sadly here in Derbyshire the situation is nowhere as well subscribed, thats all three local Classic clubs, as you are. Your clubs future is well assured but around here there is not the same support for "pre65", or whatever you want to call it, with more support for Twinshocks.

However as i have explained i introduced the Trickshox class more as a reaction to the more highly modified Twinshocks and i dont personally feel the British Bike element in our trials will be affected by it's inclusion. Then again saying that i do notice that Yorkshire Classic does have a "specials" class anyway. Trickshox as i envisage it would be a pointless class for Yorkshire Classic as 1. you dont have Twinshocks at your trials and 2. You are already inundated with entries anyway.

Good luck to you as you are one of the few handful of sucessful purely pre65 clubs

[jon v8]

BUT Twinshock trials must surely be the cheapest form of motorsport by a country mile[/quote

I must disagree with this. I recently saw an Aprilia climber change hands for

[charlie prescott]

Hi Guy's.

I understand what you all are saying.

And if Oxfordshire was Yorkshire, I would have no problems .

We just dont have the same Classic trials comunity down here or the venue's to ride.

I have thought about moving to Yorkshire (but you would not want me)!! if my health was better, just so that I, and my sons and freinds could ride a so called "Pre65" trial most week ends.

So what do you do to get more young lad's (lasses) riding a proper shaped trial's motorcycle. Answer build one out of the parts you have about,( with the help from there dad's or mates), Or add a pair of shocks to an out of date air cooled mono,ETC or a bike with a blown engine ,fit some thing that is cheap to get hold of (endless fun in it's self.) We know the field bike they turn up on wont last very long, as ambition will drive them to build, or buy, somthing better, or they will give up!!

But at least they will have tried a sport, where before the cost of building, today, most so called "Pre65'S","Twinshocks" they would have never tried in the first place ? Agree??? :thumbup:

Regards Charlie.

[old trials fanatic]

Hi Guy's.

I understand what you all are saying.

And if Oxfordshire was Yorkshire, I would have no problems .

We just dont have the same Classic trials comunity down here or the venue's to ride.

I have thought about moving to Yorkshire (but you would not want me)!! if my health was better, just so that I, and my sons and freinds could ride a so called "Pre65" trial most week ends.

So what do you do to get more young lad's (lasses) riding a proper shaped trial's motorcycle. Answer build one out of the parts you have about,( with the help from there dad's or mates), Or add a pair of shocks to an out of date air cooled mono,ETC or a bike with a blown engine ,fit some thing that is cheap to get hold of (endless fun in it's self.) We know the field bike they turn up on wont last very long, as ambition will drive them to build, or buy, somthing better, or they will give up!!

But at least they will have tried a sport, where before the cost of building, today, most so called "Pre65'S","Twinshocks" they would have never tried in the first place ? Agree??? :thumbup:

Regards Charlie.

[daved444]

Now there's a question OTF

I personally fitted Paioli forks to my SWM because they cost

[old trials fanatic]

Now there's a question OTF

I personally fitted Paioli forks to my SWM because they cost

[shedco]

As the owner of a modified twinshock, a standard twinshock & a new bike,

I don't see why these rules need to be introduced. The modified twinshock

is nice, but is not that much better than the original.

On a pre65/2012 remade bike, compared to the original, there is going be a difference.

But on my both my twinshocks the frame, engine, brakes, hubs etc.. are 34 years old.

I rode the standard bike last week & got a similar result as I do on the 'trick' bike.

The ironic thing is I can ride the modified yamaha any club in the east midland centre & do the classic centre

championship, but the club specifically catering for the bike is going to be checking its specification.

[old trials fanatic]

As the owner of a modified twinshock, a standard twinshock & a new bike,

I don't see why these rules need to be introduced. The modified twinshock

is nice, but is not that much better than the original.

On a pre65/2012 remade bike, compared to the original, there is going be a difference.

But on my both my twinshocks the frame, engine, brakes, hubs etc.. are 34 years old.

I rode the standard bike last week & got a similar result as I do on the 'trick' bike.

The ironic thing is I can ride the modified yamaha any club in the east midland centre & do the classic centre

championship, but the club specifically catering for the bike is going to be checking its specification.

Simon i take your comments on board but the rules did have to be introduced because i was recieving feedback about "modernised bikes" competing in class against std ones. Also because we are no longer an ACU affiliated club we could hardly continue using ACU eligability criteria could we? So i took the opportunity to, for the first time in the clubs history, introduce a set of eligability criteria. We are now an AMCA affiliated club as you well know and they do not have a handbook like the ACU. That is why the Eligability rules were introduced.

Nobody is saying that you cant ride any of your bikes at our event. Could you highlight what it is that you feel would make, i am assuming you are refering in the main to your modified bike, your bike uneligable for the Twinshock which i assume you are refering to.

Of course you can ride your modified bike at any club in the East Midlands Centre there are no Classic Clubs in the East Midlands Centre anymore. As for the "Classic Championship" this year that is now virtually dead in the water as it is being run as an add on to boost flagging entries at modern trials.

Of the Classic Clubs in the area, which are all now AMCA, you can ride two of your bikes at our club and at Dales, in fact you can ride any of your bikes at our club as i said earlier, but you cant ride any of them at Midland Classic. Thats rules for you Simon someone will always be affected.

I have heard comments like "i only fitted a set of 38mm paiolis or a gas gas front end because it was cheaper than getting the stantions rechromed" Hmm dont agree with that one or theres the old "i fitted tubless tyres and rims because they were cheaper too" dont get that one either. Whatever i am not outlawing any mods just saying if the bike anybody rides does not comply with the eligability rules they can still ride but either as a Trickshox bike or on a no championship points basis.

What i am trying to achieve is to encourage more old bikes both British and Twinshock along with home brewed specials in fact almost anything to come and have an enjoyable ride. However i do think they should be able to compete like for like.

I do sincerely hope to still see you and your friends at our events.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Old trials fanatic

[charlie prescott]

Hi Guy's.

Here,Here. OTF, Totaly agree! :icon_salut:

Regards Charlie.

[daved444]

At the end of the day, it comes down to the rules dictated by the relevant club. the Pre 65 Scottish gets its knockers regarding eligibility yet they have no issues with entries.

I understand that Peak Classic have their own challenges regarding entries and if Paul thinks this will increase entries then that is up to him.

Personally, I will choose not to go and ride there but that is my choice and I am sure they won't lose sleep over my entry as I have only ridden up there once anyway I think.

Instead I will ride ACU trials (Sammy Miller and Normandale) plus any number of events in my own Centre where there are no such issues (eligibility or the volume of entries) and will continue to enjoy trials for what it is - a bit of fun on a Sunday morning. I pay my entry and have a bit of fun with some like minded mates - some choose to ride standard unmodified bikes, some like to heavily modify and some like to ride modern bikes - that is their choice.

We don't get prize money, trophies or any return for the investment in the bikes and we pay little the privililedge of riding but as soon as someone spoils the fun through needless policing then we will just go elsewhere or take up another sport.

The hypocracy is what touches a nerve with me. Why would it be ok to slide a pair of 35mm Marzocchi forks ito a set of norton road holders and still be eligible for the pre65 class (when the only thing on the whole bike that is period is probably the crank cases) and on a twinshock you feel the need to introduce a whole new class when actually over 90% of the bike was produced prior to 1982. I know, having built a number of pre65 bikes over the years, that my latest 'trick' SWM is far more period and original than any of the pre65 bikes that I have ridden that are eligible for the pre65 class.

Double standards by anyone's money - or perhaps the person defining the rules has a vested interest (I.e a very modifies Pre 65 and a very original twinshock bike)

Now there's a thought! :0)

[totalshell]

the cat is long out of the bag as regards p65 although some clubs are at least looking for the cat. for twinshocks though there still exists a genuine opportunity for establishing clear unequivical rules.

two simple classes modified and production break those into capacaties under and over 250 and away you go..

modified..

what ever you want.. that simple enough.

production ..

engine,gearbox,frame,forks,hubs from one manufacturer.. detail below

forks.. bike manufacturer legs, std stantion diameter.yokes from bike manufacturer.

wheels.. tyres free.hubs bike manufacturer.brakes drum, bike manufacturer.

tank.. bike manufacturer or replica.

frame.. main loop must remain as std configuration( ie single loop)

swing arm.. same bike manufacturer.(std width and length) std shock mounts in original position

shocks.. same length as original same number as original

carb.. free must be same size inlet as original, use original manufacturer manifold and original manufacturer airbox.

engine gearbox.. all visible components to be as original bike maunfacturer

using these cirteria any bike gets a ride, mods are allowed even on 'production' bikes but the production bikes will look like they should and the costs of buying building and maintaining them will be restricted and equally acess to the sport will be simple..

[charlie prescott]

Hi Guy's.

Hi Dave,

Sorry the subject seems to have touched a nerve with you.

Has far as the Trick-Shock class is concerned, It is to stop this stupid Pre65 thing, and now it seems the same is just as prevelant, with Twinshocks.

The Trick-Shock, Britshock, Tab only seems like a better title to encompas all forms of trials bikes with two rear shocks, into some sort of order. You rightly say that putting 35 mm forks into British sliders and then calling the bike PRE 65 is a travisty. But unfortunatly has been exepted by the Scottish club for so long that this is now the norm. As it is still the case that I keep saying, that what ever that club passes, as orthentic period, carries on down the line for the next twelve months, and so it goes on. And now I am told the Twinshock scene is going the same way. How many 38mm forks will there be on twinshocks in twelve months time. I know it does not matter a hoot. But it is the old lemmings sindrome.

Sorry about the spelling, but I have to get out and walk the dog. Need some fresh air. :thumbup:

Regards Charlie.

[daved444]

Hi Charlie

What touches a nerve with me is that twinshock trials is still reasonably inexpensive and people have been making modifications for many years on this type of bike - just look at the developments involved in Vesty's Bultaco or man other twinshock bikes from the end of that era in order to try and keep up with air-cooled monos because that particular brand might have been caught napping by Yamaha releasing the mono and gaining ground on the opposition.

Twinshock bikes were an evolution in trials at a time when bikes changed significantly and there is an awful lot of engineering exellence out there that will not be seen when a period bike will be classed as 'too trick' to ride in the class for the year that it was actually competing.

I have been approached by many people (including some from the Derbyshire region) for my thought on this and their conern that organisers of classic trials who missed the opportunity to do something about the rediculous situation with Pre 65 bikes are now clamping down on twinshocks and could be spoiling it - their words not mine!

For me, twinshocks still represent a relatively cheap way to go trialling and not lose money in depreciation each year along with an opportunity to ride bikes from my youth. In 1981 when my SWM was new I was 15 and Burgat had won the world championship on one so it is logiical that this is the type of bike I want to ride as I didn't start riding till much later and wanted a bike that I would have ridden in my youth.

A question for the rule makers that has been sent to me this morning - is whether or not TY Yams which were all originally fitted with straight axle forks (which means far too much trail, and pretty dodgy steering) are going to need to run in the PC Trick-Shock class if they have later leading axle forks fitted, which is a mod which provides a far greater improvement than fitting 38mm forks to bikes which already have leading axle forks?

Any meaningful rules need to be applied equally across the board, and it seems to me that if PC are wanting your bike to run as a Trick-Shock, then the same thing needs to be applied to any bike which has an upgraded front end fitted, especially so in the case of TYs where changing the forks makes such a big difference.

[guy53]

I read this post with a lot of interest, I feel very lucky that here in Quebec we do not have any of those rules problem. At any of our competion ( I should say meeting ) only around 15 riders compete and you should see the bikes that are registered, the rules are twin shocks, drum brakes air cooled motor, and oh yes many laugh from most of the riders that are just there for fun, I sure wish that if '' competition '' get's in the way of our meeting they will change rules and make two class one for the riders that have to win something at all cost and one for the other that ride what ever they like and want to have a good time. You see for me trial riding is a sport and not a job, I have to be competitive at work. This year I hope to ride a modified TY frame with a well prepared 250cc motor just for fun, if the organiser decide that I should not compete for points I hope they will let me ride on the course they prepared at the competition they organised on the land they sometime rent all of that as the saying goes '' for fraction of the cost '' . I took some time last year to help ( a bit ) the organiser of one meeting and I can assure you that riding IS the fun part NOT organising. My hat off to any organiser specialy to the one that have to make new rules.

Guy