twinshocknut Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 hi all just wondering if other centres struggle with getting observers like down here in the south-west and have clubs got any incentives to get people to observe eg: free entries for riders who supply an observer, free meal vouchers etc etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_scorpa3 Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 A free ride for any rider who supplies an observer always helps. It certainly makes it easier to approach someone to ask. We just added £1 to each entry fee to help cover the loss of revenue. I don't always get 10 observers, but don't beat yourself up too much if you can't. I just stick the board out and tell the riders to observe themselves. It's not ideal, but you can't make people do it. As an organiser, there's enough to think about without worrying about something that's beyond your control Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Same here mate. We generally get just two or three. We have tried free entries, boxes of chocolates, wine and even paying them but nothing seems to work. Well not at our events anyway. The days when a rider came with a couple of mates or wives / girlfriends seems to be long gone. If a wife does accompany them they seem reticent on the whole to observe. This may be down to the attitude exhibited by a few which has put them off i dont know but generally very few will take the board up. It really annoys me when you see so many people milling around and riders have to observe each other. I dont have the answer but i am open to any suggestion. it was suggested that riders had to observe at one trial a year but how do you enforce that without alienating people? One local club does get all sections observed, Dales Classic, but they do have a very enthusiastic commitee and membership so perhaps this is the answer? Sadly in the main most riders just want to turn up ride and go home again as soon as possible with little or no involvement leaving that to "someone else to sort out" "Not my problem" seems to be the attitude. I will watch this thread with avid interest. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilnh Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 We always struggle with observers and in the last three years I have only managed one trial with all sections observed tried all the usual freebies but people don't want to know stick the boards out and let riders observe each other Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totalshell Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 its a tenner a time at Yarkshire classic and i dont recall ever having to mark my own or anybody elses there. red rose used to struggle to get 10 observers but the introduction of the tenner seems to have sorted it. i have to make excuses not to take my daughters as they ll kill for a tenner. the beauty is as there gurls no body swears, questions them etc and on the plus side they mark everyone the same as they dont know a superstar from an also ran. My youngest is a little to keen to call a five but shes the same for everybody! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motojunky Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 It really annoys me when you see so many people milling around and riders have to observe each other.it was suggested that riders had to observe at one trial a year but how do you enforce that without alienating people? Sadly in the main most riders just want to turn up ride and go home again as soon as possible with little or no involvement leaving that to "someone else to sort out" "Not my problem" seems to be the attitude. I don't find it annoying to see spectators not checking. I think it's great that folks might want to come and watch and I don't see why they should be obligated to work. It was that kind of obligation that made my wife stop coming to events when I was roadracing. She wanted to enjoy the day, not work. Not everyone enjoys checking (I do). I also don't think it's alienating to force riders to check one event. Our club requires a rider to check one event to be considered for year end awards. It helps out with the last item quoted above. We still get plenty of riders who just come to the occasional event that don't check but for the most part we've been OK on checkers at events. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john collins Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 A few things we have tried in our small Centre – would probably say Jury is still out on how successful they have been. Like others we now contribute ( not pay) £10 to an Observers expenses ie travelling there. Also – and this would work better in larger Centres – each Club puts in £xxxxx amount e,g £50 –or could be more. I would actually suggest £100 each year – they can calculate entry fees to take account of this Every time an Observer does job – a small slip is filled in ( can be done after event off signing on sheet) - this could also include other Officials eg C/Course and Sec of Meeting if that is though appropriate. Each club sends all the slips in at end of year – or at interval decided. Draw takes place for number of prizes decided. Someone who Observers once would have 1 ticket in draw - someone who Observed 10 times has 10 tickets in draw, and therefore more chance/reward. If 10 Clubs have taken up the scheme the prize fund is £1k – and if Centre also chip in – it can be much more The prize can be substantial eg holiday, or cash etc You get the idea. It has worked reasonably well – but our prizes tend to me a lot lower as we have a small number of clubs. In some Centres it would be very good. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 I think all trials should be marked using a card as opposed to punch cards, riders should not be allowed to question their marks, just thank observer and move on. ie remove the potential to argue might encourage more observers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 its a tenner a time at Yarkshire classic and i dont recall ever having to mark my own or anybody elses there. red rose used to struggle to get 10 observers but the introduction of the tenner seems to have sorted it. i have to make excuses not to take my daughters as they ll kill for a tenner. the beauty is as there gurls no body swears, questions them etc and on the plus side they mark everyone the same as they dont know a superstar from an also ran. My youngest is a little to keen to call a five but shes the same for everybody! We only offer £5 at the moment but that is up for review. Mainly it's down to the number of entries you are very lucky at Yorkshire Classic in that you always get a very good entry whereas sometime we have only had 20 riders or less and potentially £200 in observer fees would cripple the club financially. Then again at our last round we did have a much more healthy entry so if this continues and i pray it does we may be able to make it a tenner which much more accurately reflects our appreciation and the observers dedication. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon v8 Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 We often find it hard to get enough observers,as already said you cant force people to do it - we are all volunteers after all.We give a meal voucher to our observers and I have taken hot drinks out to observers on occassion when its been really cold. I rode for 20 odd years before putting anything back so I cant complain if people dont want to help out.The only thing I would say is that for riders who want to up their game there is nothing like observing to build a picture of how the better riders approach a difficult section. Touble is closed to club trials are often 3-4 hrs long,its a long time to hang around in the cold/wind/rain with no heating or loo facilities..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timp Posted March 24, 2012 Report Share Posted March 24, 2012 I think entry fees will have to go up a bit to pay observers. If it was £20 to observe i think more people would have a go. Everything else seems to of been tried. 10 sections would be £200 so divided between 50 riders its £4 each. A lot of clubs already pay something anway so it wouldnt add a great amount to the entry fee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_scorpa3 Posted March 24, 2012 Report Share Posted March 24, 2012 But would we get away with paying £20? Does that make us their employer? If so, surely it would open up a whole massive set of issues. Employers Liability Insurance, tax returns, health and safety rules, working conditions, I don't know what else. On a different note. A few years ago I approached ot local cadet force and offered them a £100 cash donation to club funds per event if they could supply 10 observers. They weren't interested, even though they are always holding fund raising days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj65 Posted March 24, 2012 Report Share Posted March 24, 2012 (edited) But would we get away with paying Edited March 24, 2012 by JJ65 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_scorpa3 Posted March 24, 2012 Report Share Posted March 24, 2012 Yes you're right, £100 wasn't worth having. Even if the ten trials per year would have given a meaningful amount. If you are paying someone to do something, it could be argued that you are employing them. If we are short of observers I simply stick the boards out, I know it's not ideal but what else should I do? Scrap the sections... scrap the event? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj65 Posted March 24, 2012 Report Share Posted March 24, 2012 Yes you're right, £100 wasn't worth having. Even if the ten trials per year would have given a meaningful amount. If you are paying someone to do something, it could be argued that you are employing them. If we are short of observers I simply stick the boards out, I know it's not ideal but what else should I do? Scrap the sections... scrap the event? Yes, a £1000 is alot of money, but, if there Air Cadets, Army Cadets or Sea Cadets, then that's there interest, not motorcycle trials, why would they want to commit to 10 Sunday's a year for trials when they could be shooting with the Army, flying gliders with the Airforce and sailing with the Navy, it would have an element of cost too. Now if it were a one off motorcycle experience weekend, where they got a chance to try Trials and learn observing as part of that, maybe their parents would be happy for them to take part. If you pay observers £10 or £20 in expenses, surley your not employing them, they are volunteers and it would be their responsibility to declare what they have been given, to the tax man. If you only have that choice, as in not enough observers and do not want to scrub sections, then I am not criticising you, it's your club and you run it how you see fit, I'm just saying, it kinda makes Observed Trials, a non competition, if the competitors are scoring themselves, as the temptation to cheat is there for those that are that way inclined. Every trial I've ridden, there's been people watching, we just have to find a way to encourage them to join in and hopefully they may wish to start observing. I know it's very difficult and I don't have a good answer to it, but, we the riders have to decide what we can do to rectify the problem. Maybe many on this sit would be happy to pay £25 to £50 to enter a trial knowing all the work involved in the trial is covered so they can ride, but I have my doubts, it's a cheap Motorsport, or relatively cheap, but many people have alot less spare cash, so we have to find other ways of keeping our sport, fun, cheap and with enough volunteers to run it. Everyone needs to do their bit to keep it going and I know that most, if not all who have commented are doing their bit. THANKS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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