Reading Between The Lines

[neils on wheels]

It appears that many of the top riders in the BTC are against the change from stop to no-stop rules. Specifically I am thinking of Michael Brown, James Dabill & Alexz Wigg who have all made their views publicly known.

I also believe the same three riders name the Scottish Six days as their favourite trial. So if the riders aren't consistent about what they want then how should we expect the governing body to be any less confused?

[nigel dabster]

I dont think there is confusion, its you thats got it mixed up like so many others.

Much the same as 99% of us its the trials and trialing we love not the rules its run under.

I am absolutely sure that James Pune and Alexz think six days riding in one of the best trials is a great way to spend a week and the achievement for winning must be very very satsfying.

Coincidentally the rules are no-stop.

I can never recall anyone of them asking for stop allowed because they (I assume accept and understand) without much thought that its the way it is and for the majority its better at an event which nearly died and also the sections lend themselves to no stop.

Why then cant they have just six elite btc events on fim rules defeats me.

[atomant]

I don't think you can compare a one off special trial like the SSDT (which I would argue is more about the event itself than the sections) with the BTC and no-stop rules. For the rest of the season in Europe/World doing outdoor/indoor its all stop allowed for the top boys. So it makes sense to keep it all consistent doesn't it?

It also appears to be very difficult even with the special terrain they have in Scotland, to make a no-stop trial that will challenge these boys and keep it interesting.

[chewy]

I just cant understand why the rules should make it nice for the boys, there are very few who can do stop allowed well/properly in any case. In this day and age when bikes seem to be made of tinsel and toffee the buying public want to know if the bike is any good,,, mega steps/sections.. minders..spare bikes...aftermarket parts... etc etc etc.. are all false glamour to me. The Scottish is the one event where I can get a good idea of how a bike stands up to being trialled. I note that those in the supply chain always manage a disclaimer along the lines of.... these trials bikes arn't made for this trial (even though its been around and popular for over 100 years) so do this and that which is fine. What I find unpalatable for example is the scenario of ..eg. Douggie Lampkins electrical problems (at Lagnaha t'other year) being a public demonstration of the situation dozens if not hundreds of bike buying customers have found themselves in.. yet STILL they go on fitting the same old crap components. As I'm getting a bit indirect with this explanation i'll stop ranting and make statements;

If Manufactures /supply chain feel a need to get involved in sales promotion by entering sponsored or paid riders into events..the riders should do as they're paid to do or find a job that suits them better.

the Events which are used by supply chain to promote thier goods should represent a test or trial of the machines.

We should all be mature enough to realise that a good rider can win on a crap bike and this is why they are coveted by supply chain.

Perhaps if they put on a series where crap riders on good bikes get results we could see some proper bike development in terms of reliability and use ability.

I may be playing the devils advocate here but a perspective /agenda other than prima donnas and circus shows needs to be considered.

[telecat]

Put Basically the Scottish is no longer the sort of Trial that can be put on week in week out and is unrealistic as an example of "Modern" Trialling. It is closer to "Enduro" than Trials and even then I cannot think of many Enduro's that last Six days. The only other similar event is the ISDE which used to be the ISDT so even that has had to move on. As for the bikes they are built to run to International regulations. That means the components fitted are lightweight and designed to a PRICE. The end game of this is that not many riders in the UK would pay that price. The Montesa 4RT is probably closest to that type of bike and all you hear is that the bike is too "heavy" and too expensive.

As it stands the BTC is running out of step with the rest of the world. The problem is that the Rest of the World is quite happy with the regs as they stand and see no reason to drop into line with the ACU.

The Top Riders see this as a problem as they will have to spend more time abroad in order to get a Paid contract as the ones on offer in the UK are not lucrative enough to allow them to keep riding full time. Great for "Part timers" like Dan Thorpe etc not for such as Dibs and Browny.

Edited April 18, 2012 by Telecat

[chewy]

Re stating the obvious will not move this situation towards benifiting anybody. I would like to find a solution which benifits the bike buying punters. Dibs & Browny are quite capable of looking after thier own interests.

[cubby]

The various comments regarding the BTC being out of step with the WTC is a statement of fact. However its not like it is a completely different set of rules, just that one key (and obviously important) rule is different. But it is a difference that everyone is familiar with, that we will all have ridden at one point or another, and is more accessable to more riders, proven by entry numbers last week.

Is everyone aware of what the Spanish TC tried for the last couple of years, i.e. using the Open Free method of scoring. Lets be thankful the ACU decision makers didn;t decide to give that one a go!! Can you imagine???!! (I know they have now decided to change back to more standard rules btw)

Edited April 19, 2012 by Cubby

[telecat]

Re stating the obvious will not move this situation towards benefiting anybody. I would like to find a solution which benefits the bike buying punters. Dibs & Browny are quite capable of looking after their own interests.

The "Bike buying punters" seem quite happy to be honest. If it bothers you that much why have you bought an EVO? Riders are happy having what is really a factory rep. When it isn't they don't buy it. Current Problems for importers are mainly down to the current economic climate.

[nigel dabster]

The various comments regarding the BTC being out of step with the WTC is a statement of fact. However its not like it is a completely different set of rules, just that one key (and obviously important) rule is different. But it is a difference that everyone is familiar with, that we will all have ridden at one point or another, and is more accessable to more riders, proven by entry numbers last week.

Is everyone aware of what the Spanish TC tried for the last couple of years, i.e. using the Open Free method of scoring. Lets be thankful the ACU decision makers didn;t decide to give that one a go!! Can you imagine???!! (I know they have now decided to change back to more standard rules btw)

It is not proven by the numbers at all.

It was the first round. It was on ssdt sections and no stop. there was no limit on entries and the numbers were the same as over half the rounds last year.

Open free is a dead duck and Spain has quickly gone back to FIM rules.

[beatabeta]

The various comments regarding the BTC being out of step with the WTC is a statement of fact. However its not like it is a completely different set of rules, just that one key (and obviously important) rule is different. But it is a difference that everyone is familiar with, that we will all have ridden at one point or another, and is more accessable to more riders, proven by entry numbers last week.

Is everyone aware of what the Spanish TC tried for the last couple of years, i.e. using the Open Free method of scoring. Lets be thankful the ACU decision makers didn;t decide to give that one a go!! Can you imagine???!! (I know they have now decided to change back to more standard rules btw)

I REALLY need to stop agreeing with Dabster but the numbers were not good last week as it was the new amazing, exciting 'no stop' rules. They were good because they knew the sections would be easier and more rideable + it was the first round of a championship on known sections.

Surely its plain for even the most avid old codger no stop rule lover in the ACU to see that the above could have been acheived in a much easier and simpler way -

MAKE THE SECTIONS EASIER THAN THEY HAVE BEEN THE LAST FEW YEARS!! (for Dabill / Brown et al to be dropping more in a BTC than a WTC is ridiculous and the clubs should have been pulled up by the ACU about this long ago)

No need to implement stupid rules that the top riders hate

No need for observers interpretation or view of rider stopping or not

No need to p*ss about with any of it

The ACU only need to issue a simple instruction to orgainsing clubs - 'make the sections easier'

The ACU then only need to issue a simple statement to the riding community - 'the sections will be easier'

This on its own would attract a far higher entry list than previous years and involve far less guess work from the organisers - so basically easier for EVERYONE

If a rider can clean 99% of the sections and finish 3rd somethings very very wrong.

Cue the 'it was the first round, no one was sure' comments. I'm sorry but thats no excuse from a BTC orgainsing club or the ACU. Had it been left as it was with simple 'make it easier' instructions, the guess work would have been largely eliminated.

If the winner drops 35-40 marks then the odd slack dab, 3 or even 5 would not be as mission critical and disastrous.

Having 3 of the top British riders (that I've spoken with or seen comments from) so massively ANTI no stop is a horrible advertisement for the BTC, the ACU and British trials as a whole. And you can guarantee the ACU will not have the balls that the Spanish had and admit they were wrong.

Edited April 19, 2012 by beatabeta

[telecat]

Got to agree there!! I have said for a while that certain CofC's have been trying to Kill riders rather than create a challenging course.

[bilc0]

I can't wait for the 2nd round then we can do this all over again, i fear after the 3rd round all this might become a little tedious

[totalshell]

heaven forbid.. can you believe it cleaning all bar one section is asking too much of potential british trials champions! i once rode a trail clean till the last section and dabbed at the start.. did i balme the organisers for making it too easy.. no i squarely blamed myself. self discpline and concentration is as much a factor in trials as balance. that folk are asking for more hard sections so they can make up the slack marks they drop is madness

that trials are now more directly related to keeping the bike moving forward may actually improve bike control balance and hone concentration. any bets who' d win a wtc based on the same rules as btc.. of course not rocket science is it. the best riders always win, the poorer riders just have the best excuses.

[breagh]

Still feel we're looking at this from the wrong angle lads.

Really got too look at the bikes.

Tyres,especially.

[old trials fanatic]

heaven forbid.. can you believe it cleaning all bar one section is asking too much of potential british trials champions! i once rode a trail clean till the last section and dabbed at the start.. did i balme the organisers for making it too easy.. no i squarely blamed myself. self discpline and concentration is as much a factor in trials as balance. that folk are asking for more hard sections so they can make up the slack marks they drop is madness

that trials are now more directly related to keeping the bike moving forward may actually improve bike control balance and hone concentration. any bets who' d win a wtc based on the same rules as btc.. of course not rocket science is it. the best riders always win, the poorer riders just have the best excuses.