bobbylovely Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 Hi, i just bought a Gas Gas TXT pro 300 raga. It has been a bitch to start since i got it with me really having to jump on it to get the thing turned over. The worrying is though i drained the gear oil the other day and found 3 or 4 shards of metal attached to the magnet. These were not the normal filings found but bigger pieces maybe 3mm x 1mm the biggest one. Im hoping that it maybe just of the kickstart (pawl gear maybe) mechanism wearing from all all the abuse it gets from me trying to start it. But im no mechanic, can someone advise what to do or do i have a major problem. I will be draining the fresh oil in the next few days to see if there is anymore **** in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lineaway Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 If you are jumping on the starter,then it is probably the half moon gear and idler gear. I would remove the clutch cover and clutch to inspect. Starting a pro with bad form will break the kickstart pawl. You want to feel it engage and give it a short fast kick. Once you see how it is made you will understand why. If you continue without `fixing` your problems and style, it is possible to break the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pindie Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 Mine did that and then BANG, the gearbox selector drum boke up and split the cases. I'd do a strip as far as required to find where they are from. Better than a new Gbox and cases. Cases alone are £££'s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slack Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 Hi mate i had 05 280 a couple years ago which had metal filings stuck to the magnet which i thought was the kickstart gear but on closer inspection it was the needles out of a roller bearing from the gearbox.I dont want to dampen your spirits but whip the casing off & have a look to see if you can see any thing.Does the rear wheel turn freely when on a stand as mine was very hard to turn when i had my problem.Chances are it'l be your kickstart gear as the 300 are a B---CH to start if you dont have the knack.You should always kick from the top feeling for top dead centre.Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tankygsy Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 (edited) I personally wouldn't beat myself up about it too much it as long as the gearbox changes and engages gear nicely and the kick start operates as it should. Does yours have magnets on the filling cap and the drain cap (it's a good idea if you havnt)? The reason I ask is because the oil inside the case has to travel through a small hole (about 3mm diameter) to get from the clutch side (kick start side) to the transmission side. Allthough not impossible It's unlikely that a shard of 3x1mm would be able to get through this small orifice so you can sort of narrow it down where it has likely to have came from. If its on the clutch side id say it's likely to be the kick start tooth / gear. Nothing major as this can be changed without splitting the engine apart, so as long as it kick starts ok then this shouldn't be a major head ache to inspect and repair. It may be hard to start as it might not be getting a full kick due to it missing a tooth or two (assuming the two problems are related, or it might just be your technique or even a carb issue etc). The oil on the clutch side also supplies oil to the crank bearing so any metallic particles here will add premature wear in this area, either by blocking off the tiny oil channel - starving the crank bearing and over heating it or passing through smaller particles that will make the oil gritty and abrasive, again speeding wear up. If the shards were found on the drain plug (transmisdion side) then it'll come from one of the gears in the transmission. As long as its shifting gear ok both up and down then this shouldn't be much of a problem. I recently overhauled my gear box and found quite significant wear on the 2-5th Pinion gear. Coinidentally The leading edge of all the teeth on the gear had a section of teeth approximately 3x1mm of missing tooth. I did not replace it ias its s a very wide gear (the widest in the tranny if I'm not mistaken) and it was more then meaty enough to handle abuse for a few more years. The cause of this wear was simply that it's probably the most used gear in the tranny, driving second gear; a gear I probably use the most; and fith gear which I probably use just as much as I do ride it on the highway quite a bit. Anyway hope this helps. Edit: took me a whole to type this on iPhone so apologies if ive repeated what others have already said - like whipping off the clutch cover to inspect kick start teeth! Edited May 9, 2012 by tankygsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pindie Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 (edited) My Raga 300 was an 05. Funny how two had the same gearbox break up issue? Mine whirred in the top two gears before it went bang. I wish I had not gone down the "I'll see if it gets worse" route. I take tanksy's point though. Only strip what you need. It may be the kick gear after all but if in doubt strip and clean the box out. Edited May 9, 2012 by pindie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalley250 Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 I've had both issues roller bearings go n idle gear. Don't use it until 100% located the issue. It's most likely idle gear this resides behind the clutch basket and the face you see will be ok however engine side may not be, remove it n inspect. Next it's a engine split as my roller cage was at fault. Result I replace every bearing in gear box as not worth risk of damaged bearing failure later on due to iron fillings Best of but be 100% sure of issue as said bag n big bucks if ignored Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tankygsy Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 Pindie - due to the whining sound in the top gears I take it you are infering that the needle roller bearing had failed causing the 5-6th gear to wobble / jam up on the shifting forks, adjoining gears and selector drum before the selector drum threw its leg out of bed? The two scenarios in previous posts suggest catastrophic bearing failiure. Lack of maintenance "ahem pindie, shame on you old chap!". Bobby: are you able to identify the debris you found as needle rollers? If you're not sure could you post a pic? We should be able to tell you if the bits you found are bearing parts or gear parts - if u still have them that is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbylovely Posted May 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2012 Hi again thanks for all the help i did manage to keep the pieces and will try and post some pictures of them. I doubt if they are bit of the needle bearing but im no mechanic. The bike runs fine and shifts through all the gears fine although sometimes shifting down into fifth sounds a little clunky but not always. I will try and give it a run again tomorrow then drain it again and see what i find. Regarding removing the clutch casing, will that involve me having to drain all the coolant and clutch oil, or can it all come off in one piece to save doing all this. Thanks again rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tankygsy Posted May 10, 2012 Report Share Posted May 10, 2012 You don't need to drain the cooling system. When you reassemble the complete water pump housing to the clutch case make sure you line up the crosspin to the crankshaft slot before you tighten down the Allen key bolts. It's easy to forget and if you do forget it'll break the water pump shaft and you'll have more metal bits in one of your crank bearings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toofasttim Posted May 10, 2012 Report Share Posted May 10, 2012 You don't say what year the bike is. But it's probably the kickstart "crescent" gear that's nutted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalley250 Posted May 11, 2012 Report Share Posted May 11, 2012 Why run the bike ? It's mechanical unlikely to fix its self more likely you'll flush iron fillings around gearbox and main bearings then you're in the sh!t. Don't run it fix it. It's a 20 min job to drop clutch case of n remove idle gear which it's most likely to be damaged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbylovely Posted May 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2012 I only ran it up to get it to temperature so i could drain the oil out properly. I'm not gonna risk destroying my gearbox, im no mechanic but no moron either. Got the casing of last night and its the gears on the kick start ( not sure of the proper technical names for them) that have shed a few teeth, so they will be getting replaced, and the gear box flushed through with fresh oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalley250 Posted May 11, 2012 Report Share Posted May 11, 2012 Still you need to check the idle gear thats usually the first thing to suffer heavy kick starting. Remove allen bolt in centre of clutch basket and lift off, then undo circlip on the small gear that the kick start paw gear youre refering to as damaged connects to on use. Remove the gear and its most likely damaged on the engine facing side. Once rebuilt with new parts run with oil short period then replace oil to ensure a clean flush out of iron filings. You then need to resolve the poor starting and use the correct method kicking it up or you ll be back to square one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightwire Posted May 25, 2012 Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 I have just bought a 2011 txt 250 from a mate. He used it 5/6 times. Very novice. First thing I did was change the oil. There was a broken up washer attached to sump magnet. All the parts of the washer look to be present. Any ideas where it may of come from? How do I up load a pic of washer from iphone to forum?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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