old trials fanatic Posted May 27, 2012 Report Share Posted May 27, 2012 Well Ben I tried to get the subject back onto your comments but it seems that it now has gone to Motorcross,Kick Start and the BBC. Can we get back to the subject please? Whats the point ? The hop and bop brigade will slag off non stop as the work of satan and the non stop followers will do the same about the fannying about that is stop and roll back whatever. Nobody seems to care about what is best for the sport at ALL levels just spectators, sponsorship, being a professional rider etc blah blah blah 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted May 28, 2012 Report Share Posted May 28, 2012 Whats the point ? The hop and bop brigade will slag off non stop as the work of satan and the non stop followers will do the same about the fannying about that is stop and roll back whatever. Nobody seems to care about what is best for the sport at ALL levels just spectators, sponsorship, being a professional rider etc blah blah blah What is best for the sport and why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted May 28, 2012 Report Share Posted May 28, 2012 Well Ben I tried to get the subject back onto your comments but it seems that it now has gone to Motorcross,Kick Start and the BBC. Can we get back to the subject please? But surely this is the problem, its not just the rules that are the problem with the BTC is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamjayzee Posted May 28, 2012 Report Share Posted May 28, 2012 Maybe, but Ben is finding he's not enjoying the trials and therefore is voting with his own cash. It isn't cheap to travel the country, so it's not unreasonable to expect some degree of enjoyment for that sacrifice. I accept that rules were changed to get bums on (over?) seats, but the various comments on here also point to generating the feed in at the lower end of the sport (kickstart definitely did this). But we can't do that at the expense of the higher end. What does seem reasonably clear to me is that a 'one size fits all' approach seems unlikely to work, and as the very top echelon are riding stop allowed, it does seem odd to force the top UK boys to ride a different set of rules. Personally (and many on here have pointed out that this is unworkable), I really can't see why both sets of rules cannot be applied. We have route variations and observers can manage that without problem. Why not stop allowed on the hardest route? And yes, I have observed! Whether this solves anything is another matter! Graham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted May 28, 2012 Report Share Posted May 28, 2012 Think we are agreed, but my point is its not just the rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted May 28, 2012 Report Share Posted May 28, 2012 (edited) What is best for the sport and why? I dont have a panacea but it's obvious both camps have their protagonists and detractors. I think trials have come to the point where there needs to be a split a bit like moto cross and supercross. Agreed it does seem strange that one event over 6 rounds only is run to a different set of rules to what the same riders ride, or should i say want to ride, predomanantly. Riles me a bit when we get stupid comments like "non stop is dangerous" which is total bo11ocks. If that was so A&E would be chockabloc with pre65 and twinshock riders and it isnt. As for "best for the sport" well if people dont take it up there wont be any sport eventually so there needs to be an attainable standard to attract people into the sport. All sports have a higher echelon at the top of the pyramid and if they demand a different set of rules to satisfy them then so be it but it doesnt have to be stop allowed good non stop bad to paraphrase George Orwell. If anything is wrong it's trying to combine both disciplines and as many have said quite rightly "one size most definately doesnt fit all". At the moment clubs can choose which rule they run a trial under. By the sound of it some observers dont take any notice of whatever rule the trial is run under and mark how they think it should be marked and sod the CoC. This surely cant be right either. The stop allowed brigade are so pedantic about if you stop for a millisecond it should be 5 but a roll back is ok and the non stoppers just see it as fannying around and posing so you will NEVER get them to agree so dont bother. Perhaps just call them "modern trick trials" and "classic trials" and run them to stop allowed and non stop rules. Does anybody REALLY think it matters that the BTC is run to the same rules as WTC ? Like the riders are actually going to have the determination and level of commitment to compete at the top level of WTC and are only being held back because the ACU has imposed the non stop rule on 6 BTC events ? Really thats ALL thats holding them back? and who cares if there is a British competitor at the WTC anyway? As for Kickstart IMHO that was the worse thing that could have happened to trials as it tried to turn a sport of finesse and grace into a circus freak show and thats how we arrived at what we have now. Time for a split and long overdue IMHO. Edited May 28, 2012 by Old trials fanatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosey Posted May 28, 2012 Report Share Posted May 28, 2012 Even though the importers may be wanting to help, I can't see how they can be allowed to mess around with the sections. Surely the sections are the responsibility of the CoC who needs a licence ( I believe they do?) to do this. This half help method ends up with nobody taking responsibility as such... could get messy. Unless they entioned to the CoC that some changes would help and then the CoC agreed otherwise its a mess! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timp Posted May 28, 2012 Report Share Posted May 28, 2012 As far as i'm aware this arrangement with the importers is sanctioned by the ACU. They are not doing these alterations without the organisers permission. They are all very experienced riders or ex riders who are trying to find a way forward for the British Championship. At the end of the season we will know if it is a success but with one round perhaps too easy and one perhaps too hard it is hardly time for any kneejerk reactions. Perhaps the Scarborough round will be perfect!!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big john Posted May 28, 2012 Report Share Posted May 28, 2012 As far as i'm aware this arrangement with the importers is sanctioned by the ACU. They are not doing these alterations without the organisers permission. They are all very experienced riders or ex riders who are trying to find a way forward for the British Championship. At the end of the season we will know if it is a success but with one round perhaps too easy and one perhaps too hard it is hardly time for any kneejerk reactions. Perhaps the Scarborough round will be perfect!!! I concur, I was actually SACU Steward at Round 1 Nevis Range, Fort William. A group of importers were invited to inspect the sections before Saturday practice and their observations were made known to the Clerk of Course and the ACU Steward John Collins. Any suggestions to alter sections would have been made clear to the Clerk of Course who would make any alterations necessary. That's the position as far as I'm aware. There was also a comprehensive observers' briefing at 8.30 on the Sunday morning, which both John Collins and myself attended and jointly conducted with the Clerk of the course in attendance, where the "no-Stop" rule was positively explained and enforced. Big John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telecat Posted May 29, 2012 Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 (edited) They MAY have permission to look at the sections but I believe the C0fC at Westwood was not happy about them being involved and did not approve of the "alterations". As I understood it the RIDERS should be the ones requesting the Changes not the importers. Another thing I learned was that the importers have been "requesting" the change to No-Stop for a while and the ACU decided to give in to shut them up! A case of give them enough rope?? Edited May 29, 2012 by Telecat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big john Posted May 29, 2012 Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 The question must be asked: What is more desireable?...a British Trials Championship with say 60-70 riders taking part... or a Select/Exclusive British Trials Championship with a maximum of 10 riders taking part? Big John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tricky dicky Posted May 29, 2012 Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 I've been reading all these replys with great interest and it amazes me some of the rubbish that some people come out with. I have ridden both rounds of the championship this year and it's safe to say that they couldn't be much more different. In my opinion the first round in Scotland was very good and the organisation was spot on. The importers viewed the sections and any changes that were deemed necessary took place. We had a riders meeting after the practise lap and everything could be discussed. The clerk of the course was actively watching how the trial was being observed and he did give his feedback to the observers to try and achieve some sort of consistency. Round 2 at Westwood however there was no organisation at all. The importers viewed the sections prior to the practise lap and quite a few sections were not possible no stop so modifications were made. The clerk of the course was not present on the Saturday and he had no input whatsoever with the sections. There was no riders meeting after practise and there was nobody to even say the practise lap had started or finished so it was completely farcical in my opinion. The venue isn't a good venue for any rules so in this case I think they made the best of a bad job. It's easy for everybody to blame the importers but they are having an active input in the series to try and achieve consistency throughout and then it can be discussed at the end of the season whether it is a success. It's all ok moaning about having no spectators but trials is a participant sport. It's not motocross or road racing after all. So far I would say it is achieving what it set out to do and the entries are up and the results are closer than in previous years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilc0 Posted May 29, 2012 Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 It's all ok moaning about having no spectators but trials is a participant sport. It's not motocross or road racing after all. Participant sport yes, the point i was trying to make on the motocross theme was dad may have been watching the news clip and knowing his son is wanting a dirtbike but does'nt have the first idea where to start, a british championship local to them is an ideal place to start, soak up the atmosphere, talk to a few people about the workings of the sport. This is where motocross have got there marketing well sussed. The more i read on the forums the more im beginning to think trials is a sport of closed doors. Crikey our local news even has clips of speedway from time to time, i thought that sport was dead long ago. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordi Posted May 29, 2012 Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 Round 2 at Westwood however there was no organisation at all. The importers viewed the sections prior to the practise lap and quite a few sections were not possible no stop so modifications were made. The clerk of the course was not present on the Saturday and he had no input whatsoever with the sections. There was no riders meeting after practise and there was nobody to even say the practise lap had started or finished so it was completely farcical in my opinion. The venue isn't a good venue for any rules so in this case I think they made the best of a bad job. So in this case it makes sense to look forward to the next few rounds and not make a judgement on a bad choice of location. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tricky dicky Posted May 29, 2012 Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 So in this case it makes sense to look forward to the next few rounds and not make a judgement on a bad choice of location. Exactly. This is the point everybody seems to miss. The importers realised the sections were not possible no stop and acted on it. The organisers were there but I need to reiterate that the clerk of the course never even put a flag in and wasn't present until the Sunday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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