copemech Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 Well are you? How much is enough? What oil do I use? These are all questions that are commonly asked here. You may find many answers, Some old school, some conservative, some safe. Yet for the most part is seems that many tend to err on the old school rules here that no longer apply and in fact is is costing you money in both higher maintenance and wasted product. I will not even get into environmental concerns here, as it is a secondary issue, yet not forgotton. Now we are talking trials bikes here, mostly putting about, revving a bit on occasion, then you gotta doo the BIG hill and the bike starts smoking like a chimney! Why, you ask? Because it is fully loaded in the motor and exhaust with all the wasted oil that you have accumulated from the day, or more that has accumulated in there and may never get out really, just turns to grunge that stops up your mid box and muff because it does not move. It cannot because it is lacking in two respects, these being air Velocity, to which the motor has not maintained through large throttle openings during the ride, the average here being not over half throttle at best, and the other being Heat transferred into the exhaust under high engine loads such as the hillclimb(at half or more). Fact is that most simply do not even grt the bike into a mode of operation to use the oil that you put in! The rest as bogging waste! Now, I shall start off by example of the fact that our(Sherco) Pro riders here have used the mix of 80:1 of high quality synthetic for over a decade now I believe, and without issue.Now these lads do get some revs in the bikes on a regular basis and tend to keep some heat in the motor and exhaust. Do you ride at top level? Most do not even come close! Ok, so I can be like them and run 80:1!!! Well, y'hat is a start for some! Mind you we are not doing consistant high revs and road work here at speeds. Just normal passages between sections and such with some hills and vals and some hard running, yet even hard runs up long hills and things are fine. You got any long runds up a mountainside? Few again! Comment as you will. I shall get back on this later! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spenser Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 We are running 90-100 to 1 oil mix and have had no problems. Long runs up mountain sides: check. Sea level riding with wide open throttle (short bursts): check. By looking at the discolouration of my ti pipe compared to other riders with the same bikes mine gets a lot hotter because of the big mountain pulls. 100:1, no problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_scorpa3 Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 62:1 that's 80mls to 5 litres. Too much oil perhaps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pistonbroken Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 62:1 that's 80mls to 5 litres. Too much oil perhaps? Isn't that the wrong way round !! 80:1 is 62 mls to 5 litres or have I got it wrong !! Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ham2 Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 I) (62:1) 5000cc(petrol) divided by 62 = 80.64cc (oil) II) (80:1) 5000cc petrol divided by 80 = 62.5cc (oil) I Fink? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toothandnail Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 120:1 in my Ossa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyt Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 First a question: What burns hotter a gasoline fire or an out and out oil fire? What would a fire fighter say is the hardest one to fight oil or gas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon v8 Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 I may be completely wrong,but I use the same 50-1 mix in my Ty's,my Stihl chainsaws and my Homelite strimmer.ALL are old,all run well and they are all lasting longer than I would have expected.The oil is Castrol TTS - just cos its easy to get at a shop in the next village,no other reason. The Ty's and the strimmer dont work too hard,but the chainsaws - 2 x 028 and an 048 get thrashed. Its not broken,I'm not going to fix it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldilocks Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 slightly more oil, really we are talking about and extra 10ml or so per tank of petrol here, will reduce friction and risk of seizure or premature wear of conrod bearings. Mains on a lot of modern bikes are now sealed so its only really the cylinder and con rod bearings that are lubed by pre mix. A clogged up exhaust is cheaper to fix or replace on my sherco than a conrod or cylinder re plate and piston. However on other brands the middle box is easier to replace but about the same cost. I'm sticking with 80ml to five litre as my current and previous shercos dont suffer from a clogged exhaust or excessive smoke so its not doing any harm as far as i can tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldilocks Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 or for a more concise answer......... NO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godzilla Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 What brand of oil is everybody using? i've used Motul 701 for as long as i can remember, i hear a lot a chatter about Castrol, A747 i think is it any good? Just picked up a new Scorpa today and if i remember rightly i was told to run it at 70:1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copemech Posted July 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 (edited) Well, a few good responses here and all over the board as I would expect. Not picking on anyone here as this is an educational exercize!(m) A lot does depend upon what you are doing with the bike, and the TYPE of oil! I am referring to modern full synthetics here primarily. No chosen manufacturer, as the industry all share most of the basic technology and I would think similar accross the board with differences in their own additive packages. I am sure there are indeed some semi-synthetic(blend) oils out there that work well in a trials environment too. Soo in looking at responses, Spenser seems online with the higher ratios! And running them hard as well! Pete is confused? Toothandnail seems to be somewhere about the factory Ossa recco, yet seem Borus posted it at 110:1? Add he also stated that the mains were lubed by the gearbox oil on the Ossa I believe, similar to a Gasser. I have no idea, yet it all goes to show they are taking them lean and finding it sufficient! Billy T- Yes that oil fire is hotter, takes more to set it off yet when going? Flashpoint on high synth is up there with castor oil, which requires a lot of heat to burn off, yet the castor carbons up badly in a cold motor and exhaust. Jon v8- Your bike ain't a strimmer!!!! That is the point! Since when do you rev the bike like that? It is a different animal, treat it accordingly! Baldi- Yea, well, safe side being what it is, seems 80 is still safe as we are indeed going far beyond now. It ain't yer dads old oil! Dirt is the enemy, and oil cannot overcome that! Godzilla- Good conservative recco, use any crap oil at that ratio, yet better oil, less ovit , and good practice is the point here!!!! And NO- A747 is a bean oil blend as I recall. Smells great yet carbons up badly in a trials bike, less than ideal! Edited July 5, 2012 by copemech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copemech Posted July 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 (edited) Ok Jon v8 here is an example of an oil manifacturer that is soo sure the quality ot the product that they are willing to stake their reputation onit! Run your strimmer and saws as hard as you like at 100:1. And it ain't no old style blend! Edited July 5, 2012 by copemech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copemech Posted July 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 I have posted this before as well in another thread, yet not in the general forum. This was written by an oil engineer at Maxima, and if you read through the last paragraph you can kinda follow the logic on a trials bike application. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justdrew Posted July 5, 2012 Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 I have a Bultaco 158. I would like to reduce the amount of oil I use as the bike produces copious amounts of smoke and gunk, However 25:1 is what the manufacturer recommended using mineral 2 stroke oil. I am using Valvoline racing 2 stoke at 25:1 at the moment. I intend using the bike for a mix of trials and trail riding. What do you recommend? I also run a Metralla MK2 on the same brew, constant high speeds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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