godzilla Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 That's a canny birra kit.....like. And only 55p! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0007 Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 Purely out of interest, what ratio of oil do you use in your 07 Rev? In all that I failed to answer the question, 80:1 Another point I have seen in the past, misdiagnosis is very common A skirt seizure for example is usually due to loss of piston to cylinder clearance (too many causes to list) Rod brg failure is usually due to detonation etc etc More oil wouldn't stop either one of these from happening as oil was never the cause, so oil cannot counter the effect I enjoy these kind of discussions, and I like that this forum has no bad attitudes that like to fight and flame Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pindie Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 I use 60:1 = 16ml oil per 1000ml of petrol. Same for both oils. Castrol Technical told me to run A747 on that ratio and I'm scared of 80:1 on the Putoline. I might try though and see it it makes the fragile feeling go away when on the Putoline? Both oils though do the job. I think the feeling is me not so much the mix. I'm an old "oil and grease is cheap" kind of fellow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilh Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 approx 75ml for me. cant say for sure, i use a crappy little measuring tub instead of a NASA grade super duper syringe. sidenote: petrol pumps are not calibrated perfectly. so there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldilocks Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 is there no porn in texas ? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toothandnail Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 (edited) I had a buddy that raced , and won several national titles with a PWC , NO JOKE he used a McDonalds cup , he would dump in some gas , dump out his drink put some oil in the cup, dump in the tank(never could figure why he even used the cup ?). This was a $1X,XXX.00 engine , did this for about 3-4 years as I recall. STUPID , yes ! but he never had an engine problem. Edited July 6, 2012 by toothandnail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0007 Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 I had a buddy that raced , and won several national titles with a PWC , NO JOKE he used a McDonalds cup , he would dump in some gas , dump out his drink put some oil in the cup, dump in the tank(never could figure why he even used the cup ?). This was a $1X,XXX.00 engine , did this for about 3-4 years as I recall. STUPID , yes ! but he never had an engine problem. Perfectly understandable, anything you buy from Macdonalds has so many preservatives that even the little bitty remnants from the drink will cause the engine to be preserved forever, ever seen a cheeseburger go moldy?, french fry turn green? ....... Maybe we need some of that deep fryer oil they use huh.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyt Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 I think this is an un answearable question simply because every one has their own opinion Usually it's because "I have always done it like this" so it's more habit than science My background is 30+ years in the industry, much of which i was a service tech and a decade of service and warranty with a major Japanese manufacturer I can say that I have never seen oil fail regardless as to how much you paid for it, it would appear that if it's there it works, even lean ratios seem to let an engine live, if you have the cushion, you have the cushion, you can't really have more If metal touches metal you have a failure, end of story, you don't get an engine that wears more rapidly than another because of oil type, again metal contact welds metal as quick as 60 cycles depending on load of course Most failures are probably fuel related or other mechanical problems The issues would be ring seal, more oil makes better sealing, no doubt about it And carbon buildup, which means more is not better The only time I have seen oil actually cause failures is when the incorrect oil is used, say marine oils which are low in ash, these oils are made for low revving cool running engines And old school types who insist on 20:1 with modern oils, carbon build up can increase compression even to the point where the piston contacting the carbon can cause a knock or even rod failure, also plugging up the exhaust port changing port timing So a decent correct spec oil at a reasonable ratio is going to work fine I had a detonation in my 07 Rev and ran a couple of tanks through with Ring Free and the deto went away, tells me I had a carbon issue So there's my opinion, I have seen a lot of broken stuff I'm my Carreer but I doubt everyone will agree with me LOL 0007 I like what you wrote. Pragmatic, basic common sense. Good stuff! I asked a question earlier to the to the forum that seems to be tossed aside LOL What burns hotter a gasoline fire or an out and out oil fire? What would a fire fighter say is the hardest one to fight oil or gas? Seems like a weird question, it is in fact a very pertinent question to this topic. We will see if anybody comes up with the reasoning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0007 Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 Thanks billy, I can't answer the question you asked but I wonder if the question could be asked differently If you mean "what creates more energy upon combustion in an engine" I bet the answer would come from a deisel tech, probably a few of those guys on here I bet the answer is quite different from just setting both on fire, both float on water so they are a pain in the butt to put out with water so they take away the oxygen with chemicals or foam 2 stroke oil is not meant to be used to improve horsepower, if you ran straight gas the engine would make the same power (for a short while) some 2 stroke oils or portions of the oil are not really burned off Let's say something like Molybdenum for example, I doubt it would be consumed in the combustion process, it would just blow through the engine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyt Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 Without giving away my thoughts just yet check back a few posts ago when I stated that most two stroke oils do not burn but rather blown through the engine and I was told I was nuts LOL quite true but not really LOL I will check back to which post it was and re post it here. There is a lot more to oil and gas mixing than the average Joe knows about nor cares to know about. In the end it doesn't not really matter get the oil and gas in roughy the correct ratios and go. Jetting and gas to oil ratios do go hand in hand though. Are you going to be at IOCO next weekend if so stop by and say hi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copemech Posted July 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 0007 I like what you wrote. Pragmatic, basic common sense. Good stuff! I asked a question earlier to the to the forum that seems to be tossed aside LOL What burns hotter a gasoline fire or an out and out oil fire? What would a fire fighter say is the hardest one to fight oil or gas? Seems like a weird question, it is in fact a very pertinent question to this topic. We will see if anybody comes up with the reasoning. I answered your question, Billy! Is there anything else you need to know?, Then go away now like a good lad! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copemech Posted July 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 is there no porn in texas ? Yea, but don't take me long! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyt Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 Yes Mark one more question? We have not seen you at a trial or in fact out practicing for years now or are you just bench trialing or surf trialing now? PS: We now have tubeless tyres and there is talk of water cooling what next disc brakes? The question was for others also! Let them answer if they like! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copemech Posted July 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 Point of the entire thread being that many could indeed find comfort in using the higher ratios as a well proven element here. A bit more modern, yes, add the fact you would want good oil. Billy will lead us to the fact that for the most part the oil is indeed NOT consumed in the combustion process on a trials bike as it has a very high flashpoint and we run very low exhaust temps with the slow running. At the same time it brings me back to the original concept of all the accumulation in the exhaust, which for your average rider is not good. The charred remains of the oil that has passed still needs to migrate outside and be expelled eventually one would hope. The less accumulation at the other end, the better! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0007 Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 Ahhhhhhhh, I get the point now exhaust temperature is really meaningless as this would be a combustion temperature thing THEORETICALY Combustion temperatures are pretty equal across the board on most engines but there are far too many variables so two identical models could be very different Ideally all of the combustible material in the 2 stroke oil would be consumed and no real oily goop would migrate into the exhaust, likely you would have substantially more unburned hydrocarbons from the fuel than you would the oil given that 98% of what goes into the cylinder is gasoline of suspect quality and the fact that a 2 stroke has a lot of abnormal combustion in a day But again, the variables, only the lab that the engine was designed in could test this properly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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