montytess Posted July 18, 2012 Report Share Posted July 18, 2012 I'm new to trials and mechanics in general but enjoy learning on a 2006 4rt. After oil change, the bolts that secure the side cover on (about 6 or so) have to go on soooooo gently or "SNAP". I got a torque wrench and set it to 16 pounds/ sq. ft. as manual says.....and SNAP, again! I'm soiling my trousers over this! Not really. Is this an issue for anyone else? Do replacement bolts have to be purchased from Honda only? THANKS!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilh Posted July 18, 2012 Report Share Posted July 18, 2012 put high tensile bolts in it mate. check the head of the bolt, must be 8.8 (or higher) stamped into it. make sure they are the correct thread pitch and length Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee99780 Posted July 18, 2012 Report Share Posted July 18, 2012 Are they all same length, high tensile Are 10 8.8 is normal, just make sure, they still shouldn't snap at 10 lbs though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tankygsy Posted July 18, 2012 Report Share Posted July 18, 2012 12.9 grade bolts are essential. Reccomended torque setting for m6x8.8 is 10 lbs/ft, will definately snap at 16 lbs/ft. Socket cap screws marked A4 or A2 are no Torque wrench not correct / calibrated? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copemech Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 That is far too much torque for a 6mm dia. thread in a ali case. About 95-100 in/lb(8-9 ft lb) would be more appropriate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ham2 Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 That is far too much torque for a 6mm dia. thread in a ali case. About 95-100 in/lb(8-9 ft lb) would be more appropriate. Off the top of my head:-7 to 9 lbs/ft seems a good value for most 6mm screws/bolts unless we're talking about a brake disc bolt or an axle pinch bolt...which we're not??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axulsuv Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Off the top of my head:- 7 to 9 lbs/ft seems a good value for most 6mm screws/bolts unless we're talking about a brake disc bolt or an axle pinch bolt...which we're not??? :agreed: Your going way to tight , especially threading into the ali case ! Check your specs again !!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montytess Posted July 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Thanks for the info guys (or "mates"). The broken bolts are 8mm. Must have read the manual wrong to be at 16 pounds/sft. Also, the torque wrench was new and the cheapest I've seen in the states for $30 (normally $80+). Box says wrench is pre-calibrated.... but I'm not so sure now. I'll go soft on the torque. I don't know where to get "high tensile bolts" that match but I'll research it. I bought true Honda 8mm bolts after the first break, didn't help. I'm in the US where parts are rare.....this awesome sport is still in it's infancy here and I can't believe it!! I bought my sprockets on Ebay and the "nearest" location to buy from was the UK. Worked great though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gii Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 (edited) It's been posted before in this forum, but, again, figures from Montesa Manual Standard torque values M5 bolt 5Nm or 3.5 lb.ft M6 bolt 10Nm or 7 lb.ft M8 bolt 22Nm or 16 lb.ft There are exceptions where higher figures are used, eg bearing sets, sprocket bolts. Some torque wrenches show settings in several different units. Check which units you are using too not just the number and try and understand them,. No torque wrench was ever set to 16 pounds/ sq. ft Also you say the broken bolts are 8mm, standard is 6mm, could you be confusing the size of the hexagon head with the diameter of the threaded portion of the bolt? Says something about the aluminium cases and the length of thread if you're snapping the bolts rather than stripping the threads out. Edited July 19, 2012 by gii Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flappy Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Picked up my new 4RT on Friday and put on a case saver and my manual definitely says to torque crank case bolts to 16 lbs/ft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marky boy Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 As a good friend of mine says, tight's tight and bust's buggered Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ham2 Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 Fom: The Ministry of Stating the Bleedin Obvious. If the recommended torque values and thread sizes are OK then surely it can only be the bolt bottoming out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gii Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 Picked up my new 4RT on Friday and put on a case saver and my manual definitely says to torque crank case bolts to 16 lbs/ft Fair enough, I'm trying to help, not look for an argument, Both the 2005 + 2008 manuals page 4-49 say the same: Install the left crankcase cover being careful not to damage the oil filter cover O-ring. The left crankcase cover (stator) is magnetically attached to the flywheel, be careful during installation. Install and tighten the bolts in a crisscross pattern in 2 – 3 steps. Install the new sealing washer and engine oil drain bolt, tighten the bolt to the specified torque. Torque: 22 N•m (2.2 kgf•m, 16 lbf•ft) Note 2 things It is the crankcase cover bolts not the crankcase bolts that Montytess is snapping The above instructions do not say tighten the crankcase cover bolts to 16 lb.ft Presumably your 2010 bike manual is different Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flappy Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 Fair enough, I'm trying to help, not look for an argument, Niether am I, to be honest I thought 16lb was rather high and while I was tightening up mine I was sweating a bit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copemech Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 Fom: The Ministry of Stating the Bleedin Obvious. If the recommended torque values and thread sizes are OK then surely it can only be the bolt bottoming out? Dony maka ***** if if bottoms, a 6mm will still twist off at 8mm specs! Now I can tell you that after running a few thousand different bolts on Jap crap and beyond, them boys can get things tight! And with the usually decent bolts they use, they will withstand some abuse, but not that much for a 6mm thread! Glenn will likely be the only one to understand this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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