cycledave Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 My 2012 GG 250 Econo is coming on Wednesday... What is the recommended type transmission fluid for this bike? Also, its coming with Pirelli tires, which I am not familiar with. Any likes or dislikes about the Pirellis? I've heard that I should run 3 psi and 6 psi, rear and front. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordi Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 Pirelli tyres? are you sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadof2 Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 Putoline recommend Ester Tech Syntec 4+10w40. and I would agree with this. If you use another make of fully synthetic 10w40 make sure it is compatable with wet clutch use. Smith and Allan supply a fully synthetic 10w40 which is compatable with wet clutches and cheaper than putolne. Mobil 1 10w40 should be OK. I would advise againt automatic transmission fluid (TQF). They are far thinner than 10w40 when hot and do not have the same oil film strength. To cut oil costs (fully sunthetics arnt cheap) you can reuse oil several times, drain it out and let it stand for a week, all the debris settle to the bottom and you can reuse the upper 3/4s, use the rest to lbe you chain Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycledave Posted July 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 I have a street bike that uses Shell Rotella® T6 5W-40, full synthetic motor oil, JASO MA spec. It's $20/gal at Walmart. I suppose that would work in the GG tranny/clutch. One dealer said Type F would work, and another said Silkollene synthetic transmission fluid or Maximum X1 would be better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laser1 Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 The type F is preferred by expert riders who want a quick, hard biting clutch. There are many other options for the novice or intermediate rider. Whatever you use, change it often - like every couple of hard rides and keep it CLEAN. Thats another advantage of the type F - its CHEAP and available everywhere. I personally like how gear oil makes the clutch more progressive and allows "slightly" smoother shifts so use a synthetic gear oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sting32 Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 Along with laser1, there are hundreds of threads arguing the trans oil, some will point to Gas Gas uk website that specifically warns that you shouldnt use synthetic oils or at least not what I loved to use, "gm's (general motors) autotrak 2" fluids.{please not 'ed means past tense} . I like this yamaha oil I have been using, slightly ever so slightly more bite to the clutch than with autotrack2... it is a 5w30 motor oil. its all good, I guess. wish I could recall exactly what it is, I believe it is semi-synthetic though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorback Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 Whatever you use, change it often - like every couple of hard rides and keep it CLEAN. As a new gas gas owner, I've done 3 oil changes (using same brand gear oil) and the clutch is noticeably better and the gear changes smoother on every one. The manual says change at 60 hours and I've only done 1/3 of those so far because I only ride 15-20 minutes at a time around my property and I've only had it a few weeks. However, I can feel a difference every time it's changed! I see many threads on what kind of oil to use but very little on how often folks change theirs so I appreciate the "every 2 hard rides" guideline to compare to. I don't think mine would shift if I waited 60 hours to change it. How many hours would you say a "hard ride" would be for the "average" trialer? 2 hrs, 4 hrs, more? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorback Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 Gas Gas uk website that specifically warns that you shouldnt use synthetic oils From forum threads I've read it appears that some folks who use synthetic have a positive experience with it and others don't. Does the use of synthetic oil depend on the brand/type of clutch plates installed? i.e the material used and bonding technique (or whatever the differences would be)? Your comment makes me wonder if newer gassers have clutch plates that handle synthetic well or maybe it's a brand/type of clutch pack installed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laser1 Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 How many hours would you say a "hard ride" would be for the "average" trialer? 2 hrs, 4 hrs, more? Good question. Kinda hard to nail down to a specific figure, as IMO, it depends on a few use and environmental factors. I would say the average clubman rider should shoot for 15-20hrs and the Expert rider who uses the clutch alot to cut that in half. If you practice static zaps for an entire afternoon, and get the clutch real hot for extended time, then change it even sooner. (Like that night) If you just putt around and don't ride through alot of deep water, then over 20h is probably fine. 60 would be really asking for easily avoidable problems if you ask me. (I have no data to support that) So my math may be off of the above couple rides quote, but figure that is about right for most people and if they end up changing it more often than they need - its not a bad thing. I agree with you - and can feel the difference clean makes on the clutch feel too. Your bike even more so, as its new, and the clutch plates are bedding in. A clutch on a new bike is even more important to take care of. Flushing the bike out to remove any leftover machining bits, and clutch pak materials, getting a good look at the drain and clutch fill magnets and even wiping out the underneath side of the clutch spring is a good thing to do IMO. JSE has more experience and knowledge on this than I do and I "think" I recall he changes his bikes at 10-15 hrs. Maybe he'll chime in here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jse Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 Good question. Kinda hard to nail down to a specific figure, as IMO, it depends on a few use and environmental factors. I would say the average clubman rider should shoot for 15-20hrs and the Expert rider who uses the clutch alot to cut that in half. If you practice static zaps for an entire afternoon, and get the clutch real hot for extended time, then change it even sooner. (Like that night) If you just putt around and don't ride through alot of deep water, then over 20h is probably fine. 60 would be really asking for easily avoidable problems if you ask me. (I have no data to support that) So my math may be off of the above couple rides quote, but figure that is about right for most people and if they end up changing it more often than they need - its not a bad thing. I agree with you - and can feel the difference clean makes on the clutch feel too. Your bike even more so, as its new, and the clutch plates are bedding in. A clutch on a new bike is even more important to take care of. Flushing the bike out to remove any leftover machining bits, and clutch pak materials, getting a good look at the drain and clutch fill magnets and even wiping out the underneath side of the clutch spring is a good thing to do IMO. JSE has more experience and knowledge on this than I do and I "think" I recall he changes his bikes at 10-15 hrs. Maybe he'll chime in here. Hi, Lazer1! I think your advice is spot on. I change my fluid a little sooner than most riders but I'm more anal than most riders (I'm sure Copey will have something to say about that....), being from a race engine builder background. The Pro clutch spring acts as a kind of rotary oil filter and catches all the little swarf in the oil so it's good to clean that out now and then, like you say. You are not only replacing oil with clean oil but you are adding new additives in the fluid so it's not just about dirt. You will always want to change oil after a wet event or one with stream crossings just to be safe. The Pro is not as suseptable to water ingestion as other Trials engines as the trans vent tube (the thin one by the countershaft sprocket) goes up near the airbox intake rather than down the back of the cases, like the early pre-Pro Gas Gas TXT engines, for example. I think the factory recommends a really long time between fluid changes and I have no idea where they got that figure, probably where they got the 550cc's for the trans oil capacity. I really can't think of any instance where you would cause harm to an engine by changing the fluid earlier than later. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sting32 Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 (edited) From forum threads I've read it appears that some folks who use synthetic have a positive experience with it and others don't. Does the use of synthetic oil depend on the brand/type of clutch plates installed? i.e the material used and bonding technique (or whatever the differences would be)? Your comment makes me wonder if newer gassers have clutch plates that handle synthetic well or maybe it's a brand/type of clutch pack installed. I dont know the specifics about when the plates might been sourced differently. my 2008 raga replica, and all my older bikes, I ran that autotrack in, didnt have trouble with clutch plates. more than a year ago, I got the 2010 from my dad, it always had autotrak in it. I then finally got off that autotrak because everyone was posting it was "bad idea" and I had used it all up . WIll I have problems in the future? I dunno, my son rides it about 2 times a year... But, now Im using that yamalube, love it. Im just intermediat/sr expert rider (3 full levels below pro {counting down from tops around here it is, pro, master, expert, then Sr Expert} since all across the world classes are named differently)... So maybe I dont hurt clutches enough with my riding? Id do what is safe and recommended. I was handed the 1st quart of Yamalube, by a reasobably in the know person Gas Gas mechanic that does all my heavy technical repairs to anything I am scared to touch repair or maintenance wise. I really like how it feels. plain old ATF is to much like a toggle switch on/off to me, but I can get used to it, and I have before. I just like silky smoothness with the yamalube... Also note I get the yamalube "EASILY" (AKA dont have to hunt or worry 'dealer is out' from my buddy, if he had other oils as easy to get that we liked, I'd use it too. Hell, experiment until you get the feeling you like, like I thought I would have to do, after the autotrak became a no no... Luckily the 1st one I tried worked well, thanks to the fact I think he tried a couple then shared with me. Your mileage may vary, lol. Edited July 26, 2012 by sting32 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laser1 Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 Hi, Lazer1! I think your advice is spot on. I change my fluid a little sooner than most riders but I'm more anal than most riders (I'm sure Copey will have something to say about that....), being from a race engine builder background. The Pro clutch spring acts as a kind of rotary oil filter and catches all the little swarf in the oil so it's good to clean that out now and then, like you say. You are not only replacing oil with clean oil but you are adding new additives in the fluid so it's not just about dirt. You will always want to change oil after a wet event or one with stream crossings just to be safe. The Pro is not as suseptable to water ingestion as other Trials engines as the trans vent tube (the thin one by the countershaft sprocket) goes up near the airbox intake rather than down the back of the cases, like the early pre-Pro Gas Gas TXT engines, for example. I think the factory recommends a really long time between fluid changes and I have no idea where they got that figure, probably where they got the 550cc's for the trans oil capacity. I really can't think of any instance where you would cause harm to an engine by changing the fluid earlier than later. Jon Thanks for the comments and advice Jon. I think the additives point is an excellent one that I had omitted. I also got a chuckle regarding the 550cc comment. Makes you wonder sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorback Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 Great discussion guys and I think the OP will get some value out of it to. laser, I guess I've been changing mine about ever 5-6 hours but mine it not new, just new to me 2011 300 that was ridden pretty hard by a sr. expert ride for about a year. I'm changing it often as a preventative measure but I'm might just change it every 10 hours anyway. I'm bigger and heavier than many riders and climb steep hills so that probably puts extra strain on everything. jon, anal, really? Your a word smith by trade; from the help you have given me behind the scenes, I would say your a pragmatic perfectionist! sting, I agree with your comment about experimenting with different oil. It only holds 400cc so it's really cheap to try different oils and I have 3 qts of different stuff on the shelf waiting to be tried. And BTW clydedave, congrats on the new steed. Your gonna love it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jse Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 jon, anal, really? Your a word smith by trade; from the help you have given me behind the scenes, I would say your a pragmatic perfectionist! Actually, I've just been able to make my OCD tendencies work for me..... I was out building sections last night and I'll be out at the Night Trial grounds about noon on Saturday and Dave says that riders can come in Friday and camp overnight if they want. Check the NEOTT.com website for details. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laser1 Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 Great discussion guys and I think the OP will get some value out of it to. laser, I guess I've been changing mine about ever 5-6 hours but mine it not new, just new to me 2011 300 that was ridden pretty hard by a sr. expert ride for about a year. I'm changing it often as a preventative measure but I'm might just change it every 10 hours anyway. I'm bigger and heavier than many riders and climb steep hills so that probably puts extra strain on everything. I wouldnt worry about the hillclimbs too much if the duty cycle isnt too high. Ive seen a buddy of mine practice just torturous high rpm static zaps for hours on end. Zap zap zap over and over again. The ATF gets so hot it gets that burnt almond smell when drained after a hard practice. And he wonders why his fan never shuts off.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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