m82s Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 Hi all, right I'm back to square one - I'll try to keep it brief - ish.... Bill pye was confused as to what bike I have although he has not seen it yet. He gave me gaskets etc to fit a 212cc k-roo 1991 but they do not fit. For example, manifold gasket he gave was square, mine is round 2 bolt. The list goes on. The bike definately looks like a 1991 k-roo but we thought it could of been a 250 after what bill said. Being a newbie, I have just come across the engine badge: FM 363 212cc which is a big big breakthrough for me. I'm a newb, it was coated in mud and grease and got missed....oops sorry! I have fitted a PHBH 26 CS carb as some monkey had fitted a 28 BS and wondered why it didn't run. I have fitted a 70 choke, 125 main jet etc and all is cleaned perfectly and operational on the carb from what I can see. I have come a long way in first few weeks of owning a bike as I'm totally new or I think so anyway. I'm going to get the bike to bill as I think this bike has had a different engine in its frame maybe. Airbox seems stock as its fits frame perfect but bills 212 air filter does not fit correctly. More on this later. I am now trying to get the bike to run. Here is where I would like help and forget my other issues for the minute. I want to get it ticking over before I get to see bill in near future. Carb came of a scooter or other bike. It has had jets changed etc to suit as above. New air filter wedged in place in box but not oiled yet, fuel added with oil at about 70:1 (don't ask - was for something else), newish very clean plug and checked spark ok. Bike did fire but I fouled screws on carb and set to 2/14 turns on air and couple of turns out on idle screw but now bike will not fire. Any help most appreciated as its becoming a chore now and bugging me. I know the bike fired on first few kicks with this carb with me forgetting to adjust screws in first place when i got carb and now i have no idea where they should be to get it to tick over. I have started at 2 1/4 turns as said and two turns on tick over. I'm lost and fed up. Please help people Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axulsuv Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 You may need someone there with hands on experience ... Kinda hard to diag. and explain how to adjust over a keyboard ... Just load it up and get it to Bill to sort out for you , it will save your sanity and prevent costly mistakes ! Good luck Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grib Posted August 24, 2012 Report Share Posted August 24, 2012 FM363 should be a 1987 243, which would have a round two bolt inlet manifold but it is air cooled. Are you sure you have a K-Roo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m82s Posted August 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2012 Cheers for the info guys. I'm arranging to see bill next week hopefully. The engine plate above kick start says FM 363 212cc? I'll get a pic. It does have rad under tank and is connected up to engine via hose etc. it does have the two bolt diamond shape manifold head on it too. Pics will be up in next ten! Cheers guys. Most appreciated. I also changed the plug yesterday for an ngk equiv. of champ but I reckon it could be wrong for two reasons: Plug too tall to fit and v awkward to seat ht cap on without ragging plastic cowl about under radiator It still doesn't fire and fired a few times with totally wrong plug! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m82s Posted August 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2012 She's alive!!!!! im over the moon! sorry guys i didnt get the pics up as mentioned above so that you guys can kindly assist me where possible. Anyway, having spent the morning driving around and getting mixed info regarding spark plugs (having checked ngk site first of course) i have a few new plugs to try but even the ngk equivelents are all too long - including the 'correct ngk. They are just to tall to get in under the plastic cowl that covers the underside of the radiator so stuck the almost new ngk short plug back in that came with the bike. long day and long story short, i tipped the bike right over until left foot peg touched the floor and gave it a good few twists on the throttle until fuel started to escape out of the breathers and it fired in three kicks but i didnt dare take the choke off! so, having got this far and getting engine warmed up, how do i set up the idle screw please? is there some sort of norm? next questions: my back tyre is deflated. with a compressor, will it inflate if the tyre tape is in pretty bad shape? not too bad but could be better. How do i adjust the rear hydro monoshock please? mine is way too soft and almost bottoms out when i stand on the pegs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m82s Posted August 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2012 FM363 should be a 1987 243, which would have a round two bolt inlet manifold but it is air cooled. Are you sure you have a K-Roo? thanks for this. i cant find anything online when it type in fantic 363 etc and other searches however i do know of the trials site (forgot name) that shows pics of all bikes. Unless someone has changed the frame/plastics/engine/other bits as bill said. its definately a 2 bolt manifold and has radiator with hose into engine. i do have some pics on photobucket - ill post link now. the engine is stamped 363 212cc but the parts bill sent me off with did not fit like manifold gasket and air filter which he was adament was for a 212cc k-roo as i doubled checked with him when i discovered the didnt fit. cheers cheers for your help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m82s Posted August 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2012 (edited) http://s329.photobucket.com/albums/l373/martin82scott/fantic%20k-roo/ Edited August 25, 2012 by m82s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grib Posted August 25, 2012 Report Share Posted August 25, 2012 I have just read through some of your other posts; I think you are talking about the exhaust front pipe when you say manifold. I expect Bill thought you were talking about the inlet manifold/reed block (as I did) which is why he has given you a square gasket with 4 holes in it. I think you need someone who knows what they are doing standing next to you to help you set your bike up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m82s Posted August 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2012 I have just read through some of your other posts; I think you are talking about the exhaust front pipe when you say manifold. I expect Bill thought you were talking about the inlet manifold/reed block (as I did) which is why he has given you a square gasket with 4 holes in it. I think you need someone who knows what they are doing standing next to you to help you set your bike up. cheers for the advice again grib. maybe your right regarding gasket and i probably did use the term manifold when i got the part but explained myself over the phone after realising my error. i suppose he will deal with lots of newbies and therefor just said fetch it in. jolly nice chap though! im on the hunt for a trials friend locally as bill can supply my stuff in future and advise but i want to learn more than anything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grib Posted August 25, 2012 Report Share Posted August 25, 2012 Bill is very nice and extremely helpful; a very useful source of information. If you had to flood the carb to get it started then it is likely the float height is wrong or the needle valve is partially blocked. Carbs are not the easiest thing to sort out but they're not a black art either; this is a link to a Dellorto set up guide http://www.ducatimeccanica.com/dellorto_guide/dellorto.html and there is a more detailed guide to download here: http://www.dellorto.it/supdoc.asp (Carburettor manual(english version)). If were you I would do basic things like making sure all of the jets are clear, the float height is right, and the needle valve (as opposed to needle jet) works correctly, and take it from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m82s Posted August 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 (edited) Bill is very nice and extremely helpful; a very useful source of information. If you had to flood the carb to get it started then it is likely the float height is wrong or the needle valve is partially blocked. Carbs are not the easiest thing to sort out but they're not a black art either; this is a link to a Dellorto set up guide http://www.ducatimeccanica.com/dellorto_guide/dellorto.html and there is a more detailed guide to download here: http://www.dellorto.it/supdoc.asp (Carburettor manual(english version)). Grib you are a library of information! Thanks very much! i will definately study those guides and thanks for the pointers on the needle and float height. I will be looking into this today but things are definately looking up. got my compressor yesterday for the back tyre and hope to use it lots (like on that needle jet)! If were you I would do basic things like making sure all of the jets are clear, the float height is right, and the needle valve (as opposed to needle jet) works correctly, and take it from there. Edited August 27, 2012 by m82s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m82s Posted August 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2012 Right, new rim tape, innertube and tyre on. compressor worked great - most glad i got one! New fuel in the tank at 50:1 and it fired up pretty quick and although im pretty sure the plug is wrong, it seemed fine and when i pressed the cut out for a couple of seconds, the bike almost died as it should and when i let go of the cut out it almost continued to run! maybe its an old cut out or maybe they do take a couple of seconds? I didnt knock the choke off for the few minutes i let it tick over but worked out the old fuel of which was a little left over in the tank, carb and engine wont of helped as it was quite old before putting it in the bike stupidly in a hurry and adding the fact i mentioned last time that i leant the bike right over to flood the carb to get it to fire a little easier meant lots of deadish fuel was sat in the carb all week. Today when i put new fuel in and turned the throttle with engine off, fresh fuel peed out of the breather! at least it was fresh! fuel turned off totally and fired the bike - it ran for about three minutes with fuel off totally and then i killed it with switch. maybe ill have to post a vid to get a better opinion but not at this time of night! its raspy as hell but sounds nice although im not sure how fast it should tick over and the smoke was still a little blue but got better as the newer fuel burnt (i think or is heat a factor?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grib Posted August 29, 2012 Report Share Posted August 29, 2012 Today when i put new fuel in and turned the throttle with engine off, fresh fuel peed out of the breather! Twisting the throttle with the engine off should have no effect - there is no accelerator pump on your carb. I think you probably need to look at the needle valve and/or floats (not needle jet). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goudrons Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 (edited) The fuels flowing out of the breather because something is making the float valve stick, so when the float, floats up, it isn't shutting the valve off. Dirt or old fuel can gum this up. Remove the float bowl off the bottom of the carb. Remove the pin the floats swing on, (should pull out from one side) right under the tab on the float assembly is valve. looks like this http://www.lambretta...mbd8649m35.html This valve is in two parts. First there is a stopper, I small, fat needle with a pointy rubber end, take this out and clean it with carb cleaner. Second is the seat that the fat needle fits into, this is screwed into the carb though there's no need to remove it, but clean it up with carb cleaner. Clean up the rest of the float bowl with cleaner while you are at it, it needs to be spotless. Take care the pilot jet isn't blocked as well, this is a little brass, button headed screw with a tiny hole in it (fitted upside down within the float bowl) Pilot jets look like this http://www.myscooter...--100/1486-100/ or this http://www.splatshop...mpaign=shopping Depending on which carb is fitted. Put it all back together, carefully. Try not to bend the tab that activates the float valve. (if this bends, it effects the level of fuel in the bowl, too low a float level= low fuel level in the bowl and the bike will run lean. Too high a float is the opposite,it runs too rich) Float bowl and tab look like this (tab is the metal forked hook seen between the two floats) http://www.dellorto....asp?PartID=6802 Make sure the bowl seal is still fitted and the surfaces are clean before refitting the bowl. Dump all the old fuel out of the tank, fit a little inline fuel filter (the right way around!), they are available on ebay for a quid or so and fill it with fresh fuel. Refit the carb and jobs a good un! Edited August 31, 2012 by goudrons 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m82s Posted August 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 Wow - thats masses of info goudrons - thank you very very much! hopefully this will cure all my problems once i get time in the morning and ill report back. my float isnt exactly the same as the one in your last link but near on. the two circular floats are seperate and slide up and down on very thin spikes or rods. The the machanism that attaches to them and regulates their movement looks relatively the same but im not sure if i have this correct as it stands. Last time (first time) i had this carb apart, i cleaned it all out and put it back together and the bike fired and throttle responded. eventually the carb seemed empty and the bike wouldnt start up. i took it back apart as i realised obviously there was an issue with the floats not moving and allowing fuel through the carb. It was then i realised my possible mistake. The floats sit on rods and slide up and down as you would expect freely. The floats also have a pin sticking out at 90 degrees to its position and i then assumed i must have not sat the float mechanism under these pins as it wasnt lift them and hence carb empty. I did this and put it all back together and i only attempted to flood fuel into the carb to get the bike started as it was a little tough to get going having no fuel in the bikes parts whatsoever. This is when a little fuel came out of the breather and the bike fired but then i killed it and walked away having been very low on fuel. The next time i filled it up with fresh fuel the other day and turned on the fuel tap, it was like a water fall out of the breathers and as i said, it ran for a few minutes without stalling! You must be correct here as it was obviously still recieving fuel out of the carb! ill go with what you said and report back. Hopefully i can then ride it for the first time and find out why my clutch drags and how bad. I only know this from the last person telling me when i bought it so it may just be the wrong oil im told. massive thanks to goudrons and all others who have made input. martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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