m82s Posted August 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 Whilst im at it in the morning, i want to do my oil as im sure it will definately need changing. The viewing glass shows just under halfway full. I noticed the drain plug sat just above the bash plate. should i empty the lot i take it and replace? should i warm the engine first or can anyone shed some light on the procedure please? http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://www.fanticmotor.asso.fr/r02_f32.htm&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://www.fanticmotor.asso.fr/r02_f32.htm%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dsafari%26tbo%3Dd&sa=X&ei=FiVBUM3IBcLP0QWh2oHQCQ&ved=0CDgQ7gEwAA link shows spec of bike. i have got to do the rear brake too and it currently has dot 5.1 in it i believe and its seems ok just has air in there. Newbie question, does replacing my engine oil do the clutch fluid too or is this seperate? id really appreciate anyone who can tell me which fluids to buy as im sure we have moved on to better fluids nowadays. thanks again i expect a busy morning tomorrow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goudrons Posted September 1, 2012 Report Share Posted September 1, 2012 (edited) There's no engine oil inside a 2 stroke as such (you add that to the petrol) The oil I think your are referring to is the gearbox oil, an yes, this does include the oil for the wet clutch to run in. They'll be a drain plug underneath, yes it comes our better when warm. What oil are you going to use to refill? There are products like PJ1 clutch tuner that work well. A lot of people use Automatic transmission fluid, this works well as it's a very light oil, though the clutch can sound a light noisy running on it. As you have clutch drag, it might be worth removing the clutch cover, undoing the springs and removing the pressure plate and all the plates within. (notice how the plates alternate, fibre then metal and so on) Check there is some life in the fibre plates, ie that they are not all smoothed down. Clean the fibre plates like this, there's a download on the first post http://www.trialscen...eta-clutch-fix/ Also check the fingers of the outer clutch basket that run up the side of the basket. Seen here with the gaps between them. http://www.atvriders...utch-basket.jpg The inner edges of these fingers (where the tabs of the fibre plates run against) can wear notches or grooves in the alloy and the plates will not run smoothly against the fingers when on operation, a light file of these edges can restore a flat, smooth edge for these tabs on the outside of the fibre plates to run against, smoothing out the clutch action. Rear brakes can be tricky, as the pipe runs horizontally and the master cylinder stroke is small and short, air trapped in there like this is hard to get out. Try removing the caliper from the bike so the pipe runs vertically, this will help, you'll need to trap something in between the pads. Or with a big syringe and a short pipe, back bleed the brake via the bleed nipple on the caliper. Edited September 1, 2012 by goudrons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m82s Posted September 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2012 Been real busy at the weekend but made a start on the bike today. not had time to look at rear brake yet. i got the bike off the stand today for the first time in weeks and as i backed it out of garage i learnt that without the engine running and the bike in gear with clutch fully in, the clutch was not engaging/disengaging properly or at all! the bike wouldnt move and nuetral or any gear for that matter was a pain to find. Obviously i didnt fire the bike up at this point. Luckily it looks like i have a newer clutch set than the bike i got off very lightly as all the clutch parts and gears in the case look to have been renewed at some point. The outer cover says fantic motor but the springs etc also look newer. Luckily my metallic plates are not the ones with the tabs on and instead the fibre one are. My inner most metalic plate is in great nick with very little wear if any - probably due to the amount of glue that looks like it had been applied from ten foot away with a hose! I thought what the heck and was intending on doing the full job anyway just for the sake of having the cover off for inspection. When i started, the clutch felt very light and the outer plate cover had about 2mm play but the other plates were all suctioned together - might of been the fact that the whole assembly had approx one egg cup of oil in the bottom of the housing, leaving the plates almost dry! could of been costly! here are pics as promised when only just started. i can do more of completion but probably not worth it. Having seeked pj1 i cannot get it locally. now i have clearly a near new clutch and will be filling it with new oil once i have cleaned al the old oil off the discs, should i just use something more widely available? every shop stocks different stuff so if i shouldnt choose ATF, what other oils are good to use please? I assume a tuning oil like pj1 wouldnt do much benefit now on the ttuning side of things? http://s329.photobucket.com/albums/l373/martin82scott/fantic%20k-roo/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grib Posted September 3, 2012 Report Share Posted September 3, 2012 Silkolene light gear oil and Putoline light gear oil are both good. Of the two I prefer the Putoline, but it depends what is available near you; I haven't used other gear oils such as Motul or Rock Oil but only because my local shops don't sell them. ATF is OK and certainly reduces drag but it can make the clutch a bit grabby. When you put the clutch back together the arrow on the pressure plate should be aligned with the dimple on the clutch hub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m82s Posted September 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2012 thanks grib, yes i noted the arrow and just pointed it vertical before removing the springs but didnt see the dimple on hub - thanks for this for future reference. Everywhere i have been locally for other stuff in the meantime all have different oils. thanks for the heads up on the ATF causing grab. Goudron noted it can be noisy but im glad i havent put ATF in already as i have not been any bike for 15yrs yet alone a trials and appreciate the gearing is totally different. I dont think it would do harm but i dont want to start off too far away from an oil i will want to use as a newbie in the near future. I will not be attempting any kind of rocks etc and so i dont want it too snappy but not too dull if that makes sense. is there some sort of medium? i suppose if i make a bad choice then i can just dump it and refill but id prefer to start somewhere near now considering the empty system. I have several bike shops on my doorstep as im in yorkshire so ill see what i can lay my hands on tomorrow. I dont know anything about the spec of oils - maybe ill read up on them v soon but its a bity late now to be putting the brain to work again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grib Posted September 3, 2012 Report Share Posted September 3, 2012 I would say don't be too concerned about the brand of oil you put in; if it is 75W to 80W and is meant for trials gearboxes it will be fine, if you are not sure then just ask in one of your local shops, you can fine tune your preference further down the road. I think the most important thing you need to do is ride your bike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m82s Posted September 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 (edited) Up and running just about! Ready to ride finally I'd say once i sort the mixture screws. The bike is firing first kick almost effortlessly now. i need to load into van and check that the clutch has cleared up. Its now pretty darn light! One or two quick questions....do fantics always sound like they could explode at any minute? I read somewhere about a normal pinking noise or something somewhere on here. Mine has a quite noise going on by the head somewhere (might not be the head) that sounds like....I dunno! Imagine a disc spinning on an axle that is far too small with no bearings so it slips about as it rotates I have gone back to the 28 carb instead of the 26 as the 26 needs looking at. The floats seem to be sticky even though ive gone through this quickly once or twice. Also it appears the pilot jet may be knackered and is stuck well down in the bore. Looks like someone has snapped the head on it. The 28 is brand new and sweet and fires without choke when it had warmed up a little. I put the 125 out of the 26 carb in here along with new 70 choke and 55 pilot although the spec on bike says 36 and obviously a 26 carb not 28. will this run ok? it sounds a little more dull now after getting the bike going then changing to a 28 carb from 26. Will the 55 pilot be ok or does it need changing? i think the bike is struggling on air as it seems a little lumpy when i knock the choke off on the 28 carb. seemed better on the 26 if i remember rightly. id rather have the 28 carb as its new and doesnt have float issues nor a chewed jet in there! Hope this isn't get the wallet out again! Edited September 4, 2012 by m82s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grib Posted September 4, 2012 Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 I wouldn't be surprised if you find the 55 pilot too big, probably why it sounds dull and lumpy. I would start with the 36 or maybe a 40 and adjust the pilot screw as it says in section 3.4 of the Dellorto tuning guide http://www.ducatimeccanica.com/dellorto_guide/dellorto.html then take it from there. I think you should get someone who knows what they are listening for to check your engine noise - it shouldn't sound like it is about to explode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goudrons Posted September 4, 2012 Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 "..I dunno! Imagine a disc spinning on an axle that is far too small with no bearings so it slips about as it rotates" A squealing noise when running could be the crank bearings have dried out through lack of oil. This happens sometimes if the bike's been stored for a time as they do not sit in oil, but get the lube from the oil mixed in with the petrol, so no running, no oil. Though there are lots of causes to strange noises, as Grib writes, get someone who's familiar with 2 strokes to have a look. And yes, dull heavy running is usually a sign of a rich mixture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m82s Posted September 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 Cheers for the help again guys. Grib that guide was most helpful - i decided to read it properly and take it in this time as i only skimmed through it once before. Ill order a 36 and maybe 40 tonight. Goudrons - thanks again for your wise advice. I have been and paid my fee at swaine woods and a guy who go's there like clockwork im told is most pleasent and helpful with the hands on stuff. Ill go and make pals with him me thinks. Im learning a lot now - eagerness to get out on the bike set in before being my first bike but glitch after glitch made me rethink. I bet im the only bloke on the planet to buy a bike 3 months ago and still to this day not had it out of the garage! There is gloop in the exhaust so im also going to get the endescope in there tonight and just have a quick poke about. will probably remove it and flush it as smoke is quite heavy but getting better and the clinking noise has improved since the bike has been sat idling for a total of half hour now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m82s Posted September 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Well i have put in the 36 pilot, 125 main and 70 choke into my new phbh 28 and im still having issues since. it seemed less hassle to start, idle and knock off choke after a couple of mins with the 55 pilot but now its much harder to start if it will start. Initially it seemed ok and then the revs started to esculate and seemed to stick a little and i killed it in favour of letting the engine run at high revs when cold. everything looks ok and normal and nothing has changed barring putting in the 36 pilot. The exhaust is very oily although the last guy tells me he ran at 50:1 as have I so far. Maybe this is the cause of the smoke although the smoke seemed less with the 36 pilot for the short time it ran from cold. im stumped unless its the needle that needs adjusting to compensate? i think its on notch 2. The clutch seems to still drag massively and gears are hard to find although this was done with the bikes engine off and not been ridden since its clutch done. Maybe its just the oil that needs to lubricate the plates. I gave the bike a good shake by using front brake and bouncing it and left to right but its probably not enough. was hoping for my first test ride tomorrow back to the drawing board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m82s Posted September 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 With new phbh28, 36 pilot, 125 main jet and 70 choke, the smoke is now no longer an issue today but i have not tried starting it for a few days. Today the bike is now bogging down immediately and dying as soon as you touch the throttle and if you dont touch the throttle, the revs begin to esculate still and the bike eventually dies anyway. Is this to do with the needle height? cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grib Posted September 10, 2012 Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 If you have changed the pilot jet you will need to re set the idle screws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m82s Posted September 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 If you have changed the pilot jet you will need to re set the idle screws. cheers grib, i tried this straight away as my first thought. I had a look at the guide you kindly posted for me and im just trying to get my head around what difference i have with the carbs larger bore/venturi thingy. i have tried fidling with the screws but just wild guesses with small adjustments either way on each. I think i had them somewhere near before but again these can also be down to preference too to an extent. Obviously i just need to get the bike to idle ok first before i worry abou this. with that larger pilot (and much more smoke!) i had approx 2-3 turns on the air whilst testing and anywhere between 1-2/12 turns on the tickover screw. average 1.5 turns ish gave a reasonable tickover that didnt pop too much at the exhaust and was stable. it looks like the bike wants 2 turns plus on the air though to idle without choke but it gains dull fast revs quickly on its own and dies. This happens with tickover screw now fully in and up to 1.5 turns out with tonights guess-timates any opinions most appreciated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grib Posted September 10, 2012 Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 I would expect the air screw to be about 1&3/4 turns out. The tickover screw is just a stop for the slide - basically like holding the throttle open a bit, you don't need to count the turns on it infact it would be better to have it wound too far out than too far in. From the tuning guide: "At idle the Carburetor supplies only the mixture required to keep the engine running at very moderate rpm. The engine needs only a small amount of air when idling and the throttle slide should therefore be almost completely closed." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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