Confused About An Early Model 49

[mparrynorton]

I have just noticed a Model 49 on 'Spinning Wheel Classics' website with an interesting letter of provenance, I have exactly the same bike including Homerlite tank and 'later' exhaust in bits in my shed, I have taken said bits to Mr Millers and he says they are just standard M49 of 1970s manufacture so my question is does anyone else have the same bike and are there more than the four? I also notice certain spelling mistakes in the letter surely even Sammy could spell his own address and the word Scottish with two T's, Oh and was there a Scottish TWO day trial in1969? Heres hoping only the other two bikes appear!

[bultaco49]

That bike on Spinning Wheel Classics looks to me like a 1969 engine & frame with a 73 Bultaco Homerlite tank, Sammy Miller Exhaust and much later rear shocks. Decompressor and alloy air box are not original.

[2stroke4stroke]

An undated letter of provenance? Written on a typewriter too but surely a business like that would be on to word processing by the time of reaching Bashley. And the Ossa has new Beta rear units on it!

I knew someone who had what he claimed (rightly I believe) was a Bultaco originally owned by a famous personage whose name I can't now recall. He sold the registration number but could not seem to realise that it was effectively no longer "so and so's" bike but left him with just another old Bultaco.

[bult360]

True Bultaco prototypes had the serial nos start with 100 then whatever no the machine was , for example 100007 was the 125cc 1960 world record breaking bike 100123 was a TSS roadracer etc .They also had a habit of taking an existing model and developing it for another purpose as they did with 669NH0 as this first prototype sherpa has the serial nos starting M/B 4XXXXX. Sammy was playing around with a 5 speed well before 68 , there are photos of EAA60D (His second sherpa) with a 5 speed motor fitted , wether this was that bike with a 5 speed motor fitted or a complete new bike with the no plate swapped ,who knows? To be honest this bike thats for sale looks as bultaco 49 says like a first model model 49 . Also if it was supplied direct to sammy ,i would of thought the serial nos would of matched as most bultacos of this period only have non matching nos and only by a few digits because commerfords sold them as kit bikes and apparantly didnt bother matching the units up when they sold them (this is only what i have been told so dont take it as gospel ) Also i thought he rode ROU5G most of 69? again could be wrong

[woody]

Yes, ROU 5G was his main bike for 1969 and 1970 and it had the bottom frame tubes cut off I think, replaced with his usual flat bashplate. There was another G reg bike too, but can't remember the number now, but ROU was the usual one.

In all the pictures I have of him riding Bultacos from that period, I've never seen that registration, or for anyone else. The letter looks as though it has been knocked up by someone to support their claim (I don't mean Spinningwheel) If that was a letter from Miller confirming it as his bike, it would surely be better presented, be on headed paper and be written in the first person confirming that it is 'my' bike.

As mentioned above, the prototype 5 speed was well in advance of 1969. The 1967 production M27 was 5 speed., so difficult to understand what this bike is a prototype of. Just looks like an early model 49 with later tank and exhaust - and there isn't a 325 in the world that would fit that exhaust, it's standard 250 with the threaded collar.

[mparrynorton]

I am off to the Netley Marsh bike jumble Friday and Saturday and will be on stand H33 i will take the frame and parts so if anyones interested they can have a look and hopefully shed some light on it (its not for sale though)

[woody]

On the other hand, I'd love to know where the 325 prototype EOR 2K is these days.

[bult360]

So Would i !

[woody]

It's not unusual to see Sherpas with all sorts of early or late parts fitted. There was a 199a on ebay recently with a slimline tank/seat unit.

The Homerlite tank didn't appear until 1974 so there is no way it was original equipment on that bike. Again, it's not unusual to see earlier Bultacos with slimline or Homerlite tank/seat units. The slimline tank and downward facing silencer was an option to update M49 to M80 spec. It's most likely your bike is what Miller said, M49 with later parts - they're not uncommon.

Here's another

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C326470

[2stroke4stroke]

True Bultaco prototypes had the serial nos start with 100 then whatever no the machine was , for example 100007 was the 125cc 1960 world record breaking bike 100123 was a TSS roadracer etc .They also had a habit of taking an existing model and developing it for another purpose as they did with 669NH0 as this first prototype sherpa has the serial nos starting M/B 4XXXXX. Sammy was playing around with a 5 speed well before 68 , there are photos of EAA60D (His second sherpa) with a 5 speed motor fitted , wether this was that bike with a 5 speed motor fitted or a complete new bike with the no plate swapped ,who knows? To be honest this bike thats for sale looks as bultaco 49 says like a first model model 49 . Also if it was supplied direct to sammy ,i would of thought the serial nos would of matched as most bultacos of this period only have non matching nos and only by a few digits because commerfords sold them as kit bikes and apparantly didnt bother matching the units up when they sold them (this is only what i have been told so dont take it as gospel ) Also i thought he rode ROU5G most of 69? again could be wrong

Yes, our local dealer said at the time that the numbers were different to avoid the purchase tax. My pal bought one in two crates and there were some papers to show it had been supplied by a tv shop in Thames Ditton. Never mind, the taxman won't go back that far now.

[sherpa325]

I would guess this is just an early model49 with some later parts fitted- exhaust and tank. I would want further proof to be convinced this was a 'prototype' and one of Millers' personal bikes. All model27's were five speed and had IRZ carbies and were made from 67-68. In regards to it being a Miller bike from that period, all of the early photos I have of his bike show them to be equiped with his own front mudguard/ fork brace, he also had the valence removed from the front rim and PK screws instead of rim clamps- but you never know?

Cheers Greg

[az9]

I HAVE M49 (1969) which I use mostly at club trials,it was fitted with a decompresser in early 70,s and slimline tank , runs ok but usally get through 2 plugs per trial, all gasketts seal rings piston been replaced any ideas. ?

[sparks2]

Hi

I would agree with what most have said - an early M49 with a later homerlite tank seat unit fitted.

KEN 65G is a Bury (Greater Manchester) number from 1968/1969 so, almost certainly, the bike would have been

supplied new by Jim Sandiford. In my opinion the Miller connection is just a red herring.

Regards

Sparks2

[penno350]

So any bike could be like Trigger's Brush, 8 new heads and 5 new handles but the same brush!!

[bult360]

dont know why i have circumnavigated ? all i did was mention a new ish classic publication that had vestys bikes in it !