perce Posted September 20, 2012 Report Share Posted September 20, 2012 Just watched that video clip there at 7:13. How can anyone get away with that? I'm not defending that but I did something very similar without thinking for another rider in the SSDT, the observer passed comment to me but i genuinely didn't know the rider i'd helped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dombush Posted September 20, 2012 Report Share Posted September 20, 2012 (edited) Like a number of other contributors i neither witnessed this nor know the people involved. However a few thoughts... Like the speeding case mentioned, sometimes you get away with it, sometimes you dont. However if the risks of getting caught are high (e.g. losing a championship), then you act accordingly and behave whiter than white. Whatever the implications, if you ignore the rules then its just a matter of time. Its a shame for the rider, but like many sports at high level it takes a strong team effort to compete. If the team breaks down in one way or another then stronger teams will win. The one area that i do feel strongly about is dealing with such matters outside the press. With the loss of the championship and the publicity, penalties have been severe. Therefore it doesnt reflect well on either party to use the press to have a slagging match. Hopefully the governing body has stepped in and pointed this out. In my limited club experience i have witnessed significant gardening perhaps twice. Both times i ended up feeling sad that the individual needed to lower themselves to do it. At my level with almost nothing to gain from winning, perhaps the respect of your peers is the biggest reward. Gives us something to talk about though :-) Edited September 21, 2012 by dombush Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copemech Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 This rule was put in place for a good reason. I have observed enough trials on a National and also WTC level to know. What it really means is keep your a-se out. Sorry, that means anyone not riding, then POSSIBLY there may be a bit more controlled setting which is set the way it is for a reason in many cases. A bit more enforcement and those involved may well think twice! Sorry bout your luck, thanks for playing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 Guess it ultimately comes down to choice. There are other domestic championships in europe that could be contested if this is such a 'bad' championship. I'm no expert and clearly its not a great way to end the season but I'm not detecting much sympathy either from the posts i've read. The measure of success is truly personal preference. Clearly there are a number of informed people who view the championship as a success in the same way there a number of informed people who view it as unsuccessful. It would appear that this year has thrown different podium winners into the mix and larger entries into the championship class than previous years. Surely that has to be good for the sport? Why is more people in a championship better? One other winner once this year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 At the end of the day Shirty knew he should not be in any section yet chose to be there, perhaps the punishment was/is harsh but never the less was known and apparently pointed out by JC prior. So whilst we all try to push our luck/bend the rules in many things ultimately one day its going to come back and bite you on the a*** It must be remembered that at the British Championship meeting it was agreed there would be one ‘assistant’ and that ‘assistant’ was not allowed in the section without the prior agreement of the observer. That assistant was the person who had signed on at the start of the trial. Any rider or person associated with that rider/team would be excluded if they contravened the rules. John Collins pointed this out at the riders briefings. If that was the case, and this is maalcoms view btw, then the coc should have been at the first section with an early yellow card so everyone knew that transgressions would be harsh at this round and not the same as the previous five? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 This just strikes me as an injustice! However you look at this, Michael losing the championship especially after he rode better on the day, because of the actions of someone else not in his control, is wrong. Maybe in a sport where there is lots of money like F1 or something its important, but not in a 'hobby' sport like trials. Surely the punishment is disproportionate for the 'crime' ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie_lejeune Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 This just strikes me as an injustice! However you look at this, Michael losing the championship especially after he rode better on the day, because of the actions of someone else not in his control, is wrong. Maybe in a sport where there is lots of money like F1 or something its important, but not in a 'hobby' sport like trials. Surely the punishment is disproportionate for the 'crime' ? you cant really say that, rules are rules- why not let people away with unlucky 5's or dabs etc. I think the biggest thing here is that the coc made the correct decision by applying the rules- which 99 times out of 100 arent applied. As has been said brown has suffered ultimately because of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 you cant really say that, rules are rules- why not let people away with unlucky 5's or dabs etc. I think the biggest thing here is that the coc made the correct decision by applying the rules- which 99 times out of 100 arent applied. As has been said brown has suffered ultimately because of it. You obviously didn't understand my point to make a comment about riders getting away with unlucky 5's. A 5 would be taken by the rider and therefore he/she has influenced it. To use your same analogy, it would be if someone else who caused you to get a 5 by their actions of which you never had any control over.i.e someone walking into the section and standing right in front of you. You stop, You get a 5, and its not your fault. This is an injustice on that level I feel. In relation to the CoC I also believe he has applied the rules correctly however as I said above, I feel ( especially because what was at stake) the punishment was disproportionate for the 'crime' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 This just strikes me as an injustice! However you look at this, Michael losing the championship especially after he rode better on the day, because of the actions of someone else not in his control, is wrong. Maybe in a sport where there is lots of money like F1 or something its important, but not in a 'hobby' sport like trials. Surely the punishment is disproportionate for the 'crime' ? Is it sporting to take outside assistance, on this or any other occasion ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 (edited) Is it sporting to take outside assistance, on this or any other occasion ? If Michael said, "Shirty, can you go and sort that part of the section for me" then No that wouldn't be sporting, but he never said that did he. Shirty sponsors Michael so he is hardly likely to tell Shirty he doesn't want him in the section or tell him what he should or should not do. . Edited September 21, 2012 by atomant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mb191 Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 Shirty sponsors Michael so he is hardly likely to tell Shirty he doesn't want him in the section or tell him what he should or should not do. Bet he will next time 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizza5 Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 New Gas Gas trick bits in a store near you 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 2013 Gas Gas 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyl Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 I guess its all a bit sad - in realiIty it would of been nice for Micheal to have won his 1st BTC and think this would probably do him a world of good. It would also be a shame for James to have title taken away in protests. Malc, Shirty, John, Martin, Birks etc in years gone by have all world class riders and some have become super minders importers. The sport at this level is all about maximising the slightlest advantage. Good minders make a big difference and in recent years the "team" have followed the team leader. I believe riders in recent years have only ever been allowed 1 minder but the team bosses/importers have assisted when they could get away with it. It sounds like the Mitchell as normal was a good trial and knowing the guys was more than likely well set out and organised. Its a shame for the sport that everybody has done what they belive was the right thing and we have ended up with what we have now. I do think the more we can get back to organisers setting out challenging sections and the rider riding them (on his own abilty) the better. - be this no stop/stop allowed/no minder/full team back up allowed at the end of the day it shoud be the course as set out by the CofC againt the rider and bike. Here's to 2013 - whatever it may bring but 2012 should be seen as a positive year and a good exercise and what ever is said its better to try something rather than talking about it and wondering what if, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gasgas249uk Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 Its time to stop This thread has lived its life. Shirty has been punished by the result and these views. Everything that needs to be said has been said.Shirty will have learnt a lesson from this whole deal. Going over this business any more is looking like overkill and won't achieve anything. So he screwed up. Him and Gas Gas UK have done good for the sport. Isn't it time to move on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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