shedracer Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 Back on subject: Simple solution scrap the punch cards go back to boards, no rider or minder or manager can get the score off the observer and scores will be available at the end of the day. If an observer feels the need to 5 a rider within the rules then that can be appealed at the end, but it does take the pressure off the ''Volunteer' observers? This I would very much like to see, riders should only know what the observer has given, at the end of the Trial. Save the observer getting Aggro from some of the riders, which can only be a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mb191 Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 agree get rid of punch cards and also minders just bike and rider against section if the rider does the gardening then the five is his fault not someone elses, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 agree get rid of punch cards and also minders just bike and rider against section if the rider does the gardening then the five is his fault not someone elses, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marky boy Posted September 26, 2012 Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 Also Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj65 Posted September 26, 2012 Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 Back on subject: Simple solution scrap the punch cards go back to boards, no rider or minder or manager can get the score off the observer and scores will be available at the end of the day. If an observer feels the need to 5 a rider within the rules then that can be appealed at the end, but it does take the pressure off the ''Volunteer' observers? Trials I've observed at that don't have punch cards, have a much happier atmosphere, I certainly feel less stressed. Riders should not be allowed to ask the observer what they've been given. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telecat Posted September 26, 2012 Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 (edited) Riders Numbers are up in the Championship class but overall were down. Spectators voted with their feet and crowds at local BTC's were down. In one case two riders and a spectator who where there estimated that there were under 250 people following the event. Most of whom were friends and relatives. The riders were not impressed with the new rules either. As for going off and doing the Spanish Rounds. DIbs and Brown have been said they'd like to do just that. The Importers they are tied to have different agendas though. So the riders don't like it and the Spectators don't like it. I suspect that the riders are bending the importers ears as we speak. As for having a quieter life with marking sheets I always let a rider know when they have had a five especially if it was for a technical infringement. At this level the riders need to know their marks. It could make or break the event, season or even the working life of riders. Edited September 26, 2012 by telecat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizza5 Posted September 26, 2012 Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 So the riders don't like it and the Spectators don't like it. I suspect that the riders are bending the importers ears as we speak. As for having a quieter life with marking sheets I always let a rider know when they have had a five especially if it was for a technical infringement. At this level the riders need to know their marks. It could make or break the event, season or even the working life of riders. Was there a poll or a vote on your findings about riders not liking it? Just curious where the info came from? Do riders really need to know there score to change their working lives as a rider, surely just to train harder and ride better is the best formula? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted September 26, 2012 Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 Taken a long time to filter through, but my comment re punch cards is gaining support !!!!! http://www.trialscentral.com/forums/topic/40965-observers/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telecat Posted September 28, 2012 Report Share Posted September 28, 2012 Was there a poll or a vote on your findings about riders not liking it? Just curious where the info came from? Do riders really need to know there score to change their working lives as a rider, surely just to train harder and ride better is the best formula? In Essence where were the Spectators? And the riders views are easy to pick up. Just the posts on TC and Facebook as well as asking a few "Experts" in the Centre some of which the change in rules were supposedly aimed at . As for not letting the riders know the score are you serious? Even events like the IOM TT have boards out to let riders know what the time differences are throughout the lap. I expect they do train as hard and ride as hard as they can as well. I expect the meeting at Rugby to be well attended this time round or that Riders will have sent their views in or have somebody there to put their views forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizza5 Posted September 28, 2012 Report Share Posted September 28, 2012 As for not letting the riders know the score are you serious? Yep! Can't see the problem make the decision by the obsever easier, so deadly seriuos I'm afraid In ''Essence'' I think it would be more 50/50 split by the riders being happy maybe stearing towards the stop and hop rules? but lets be fair the previous BTC wasn't working, so I applaud the T&E commitee for giving it a go, what happens at Rugby will be interesting if this didn't work and the previous didn't work options are running out? The BTC should be a challenge, but you are only challenging 2 men if you make the sections hard, the rest will slog around for 3's and 5's all day, reckon a few will get fed up of that and go and ride a centre trial closer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted September 28, 2012 Report Share Posted September 28, 2012 Yep! Can't see the problem make the decision by the obsever easier, so deadly seriuos I'm afraid In ''Essence'' I think it would be more 50/50 split by the riders being happy maybe stearing towards the stop and hop rules? but lets be fair the previous BTC wasn't working, so I applaud the T&E commitee for giving it a go, what happens at Rugby will be interesting if this didn't work and the previous didn't work options are running out? The BTC should be a challenge, but you are only challenging 2 men if you make the sections hard, the rest will slog around for 3's and 5's all day, reckon a few will get fed up of that and go and ride a centre trial closer? Agreed definately running out of options. Be nice to hear of some positive constructive proposal to move the championship forward instead of just the constant whinging and whining from the hop and bop brigade as gizza5 said it wasnt working before either. Dont get the references to spectators that has been made also as Trials never was a spectator orientated sport. If some people want to spectate then fine if they dont so what. The sport is and always should be about the riders. The opportunity is always there to attend at Rugby but it is always very poorly attended so the riders who are now whinging only have themselves to blame. I suppose they will be queueing out the door and standing in the aisles this time at Rugby?? Yeah and piggys will fly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marky boy Posted September 28, 2012 Report Share Posted September 28, 2012 The BTC should be a challenge, but you are only challenging 2 men if you make the sections hard, the rest will slog around for 3's and 5's all day, reckon a few will get fed up of that and go and ride a centre trial closer? That or buy a twinshock and ride the easy course pretending it is a much harder bike to ride like a load of the experts nowadays Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thespikeyone Posted September 28, 2012 Report Share Posted September 28, 2012 i'm pretty sure this has been mentioned before, why dont we use the big national one lappers as the champs? they always get big numbers, the sections are hard enough to take marks off the top boys but not so extreme they put off. no need to put on extra events as most are already established therefore clubs don't need to worry about cost etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted September 29, 2012 Report Share Posted September 29, 2012 They're probably not hard enough, the jack wood in 2011 had browny and wiggy on one each, trying to think of others. Think the main argument against is that once established as a championship event it ends up being a ten or twenty marks lost for the winner and good lads like Thorpe end up on 50 then the rest much higher scores. The top two are streets ahead and the only way to allow others to get near is to ease the severity. To repeat we are talking about 6 events which should be an elite championship for the best in the country, and championship which is not compromised simply to increase entries in the hardest route? Spain Italy and France all have a handful of entries the same as ours. Overall numbers are not up and I wish someone could be bothered to work it out exactly and get some stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted September 29, 2012 Report Share Posted September 29, 2012 (edited) What is really annoying is that the efforts this year went off half cock. Maybe no stop is the answer to our woes but ffs why didnt everyone get behind the effort? The importers, at least some of them were adament that n/s would be the answer but did they support the series? Where were their displays try a bike extra publicity, rider incentive programmes and so on(at some events there were bikes but I certainly didnt see much at the events I was at). Where was the acu extra publicity? Where was the event razmatazz? A bigger screen for results? where was the osset try a bike for youngsters? why were the ladies/schoolboys not there on the saturday to make the event bigger, maybe alongside the a big acu display? where were the clubs that want to run n/s unlike scarborough who clearly didnt (it was imposed on them?)? And gizza b40 otf and jj how many events did you lot go to? why were the sections eased to such an extent that it helped the riders moaning about n/s. Why were the sections so lame, at addingham there was much more scop but they avoided anything spectacular and cant think there was one step at all. Where was the support of the riders, there was no real effort by the acu to get the riders on board, and most of all what were the goals and aims of the series? everyone agrees that the series needs a shake up but unless we all pull together and get some kind of momentum for a showcase championship with spectators its a dead duck. Much like addingham was. Really think we are going to throw the baby out with the bathwater if we dont buck our ideas up, it needs a concerted effort by all. Edited September 29, 2012 by nigel dabster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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