dombush Posted November 4, 2012 Report Share Posted November 4, 2012 The clutch on our recently purchased 07 125 is sticking. This mainly shows up as Stalling when put into gear even when hot Not allowing the bike to be freewheeled when clutch pulled in.(engine not running) Needing to pull the bike back and forth to free the clutch plates. Stalling the engine when coming to a stop. Cant kick start the bike in gear if stalled suddenly As soon as the clutch plates are "unstuck" they remain ok until the clutch is released and pulled in again. Whilst this rarely affects the bike whilst moving, it makes it hard for a 12 year old to manouvre the bike. Someone mentioned to me that heavily used 125's can suffer from warped clutch baskets / hubs. Does anyone know any more about this? Dom PS, i have alreadyt done some minimal filing of the clutch basket fingers to remove some fairly deep grooves. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted November 4, 2012 Report Share Posted November 4, 2012 Sounds like it needs a new clutch basket,depends on how deep the grooves are,probably get away with filing about 0.25 mm.Look on the Beta forum for clutch fix,its close to the forum start.This will tell you all you need to know,the clutches are very similar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copemech Posted November 5, 2012 Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 I had one like that. Did not fix it till I replaced both steel and friction plates. May well be worth doing the Dan Williams(BETA) clutch mods while you are at it, specially if the outer basket has deep grooves that need attention. Not sure any of that will totally prevent sticking from cold set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taffe Posted November 5, 2012 Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 I did the Dan Williams tricks on by Beta 250 and 07 Sherco 125/200, and no sticky clutch any more. Cheers Taff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dombush Posted November 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 Thanks for your help guys New clutch basket, rivets and rubbers on their way I'll fettle the plates as described while its all apart Dom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony27 Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 With what the clutch basket etc cost they almost become service items, my working out comes to less than a pair of sprockets so I don't know why you'd bother filing the fingers on the basket Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dombush Posted November 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 In hindsight i have to agree with tony 27. After dissasembling the old basket / ring gear, rivetting the new basket together was quite easy. I fitted new "cush drive" rubbers at the same time and the whole lot including oil cost me around £50 After fitting, the bike (clutch) was much quieter, but the degree of progressiveness was a revelation. Previously the clutch was on or off within 5mm of lever movement. Now its probably 25mm of movement. Also, clutch "sticking" is a thing of the past & clutch drag is now almost non existent. So, my advice is as tony27 says.... the clutch basket should really be treated as a service item. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copemech Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 (edited) Soo, I am qurious what took you directly to the basket? Seem something you found obvious or evident. And you retained your existing plates? You stated the riviting was easy? What process did you use? Steel rivits are not easy to drive! Any pics? Edited November 9, 2012 by copemech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony27 Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 Have a look at the blog on splatshop, there is a step by step guide to changing the basket. They use an old flywheel to support the clutch while swaging over the ends of the rivets, I'll probably use our press at work when I do mine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dombush Posted November 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 Copemech What made me plump for the clutch basket? Checked flatness and condition of all the plates, the hub and basket seemed round and true. The end plate was moving in/out... there isnt much else. i suspect that when i filed the clutch basket fingers i took slightly more material from the back end of the fingers (deeper notches at the back). This must have slightly tapered a couple of the clutch basket location fingers towards the closed position. This was only obvious with an engineers square after the event. I suspect that when the end plate moved out the plates didnt seperate because they were trying to slide "up a slope", hence the sticking. As has been said there is a step by step guide to rivetting a new basket to the old ring gear on the Splatshop website, follow the "blog" link. 2 hours work all in; Only "special tool" required is a suitably sized dolly to rivet against and perhaps a clutch hub holding device (i improvised). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copemech Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 Copemech What made me plump for the clutch basket? Checked flatness and condition of all the plates, the hub and basket seemed round and true. The end plate was moving in/out... there isnt much else. i suspect that when i filed the clutch basket fingers i took slightly more material from the back end of the fingers (deeper notches at the back). This must have slightly tapered a couple of the clutch basket location fingers towards the closed position. This was only obvious with an engineers square after the event. I suspect that when the end plate moved out the plates didnt seperate because they were trying to slide "up a slope", hence the sticking. As has been said there is a step by step guide to rivetting a new basket to the old ring gear on the Splatshop website, follow the "blog" link. 2 hours work all in; Only "special tool" required is a suitably sized dolly to rivet against and perhaps a clutch hub holding device (i improvised). All good then you got it going. The one I had did have warppage in the steel plates, yet the new ones did not measure perfectly. Seems they are just stamped out! Tony, I would stay off the press with this. Rivets respond better to impact as compared to pressure. For one, I would avoid driving them with a free hammer, I think in this instance due to the proximity of the other components, I would use another bucking device in between so I did not hit things incorrectly. An example may be hammer upon hammer. Or in other words, placing one hammer(or bucking device) on the rivet tail held in place steadly, then impacting that with another to insure your striking hammer did not come close to gear and such. Of course, if you are as good as a cobbler, carry on! We use a variety of things to do rivet work on aircraft, primarily an air driven gun similar to an automotive air hammer, difference being the trigger is Very controllable by comparison. A flat end on one these makes light work of such a task. Control here being the key, as you slip off and you will likely damage something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
storminnorm Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 The clutch on our recently purchased 07 125 is sticking. This mainly shows up as Stalling when put into gear even when hot Not allowing the bike to be freewheeled when clutch pulled in.(engine not running) Needing to pull the bike back and forth to free the clutch plates. Stalling the engine when coming to a stop. Cant kick start the bike in gear if stalled suddenly As soon as the clutch plates are "unstuck" they remain ok until the clutch is released and pulled in again. Whilst this rarely affects the bike whilst moving, it makes it hard for a 12 year old to manouvre the bike. Someone mentioned to me that heavily used 125's can suffer from warped clutch baskets / hubs. Does anyone know any more about this? Dom PS, i have alreadyt done some minimal filing of the clutch basket fingers to remove some fairly deep grooves. Well what a coincidence, I have exactly the same problem with an 07 125 which is my sons first bike. I think I will follow your example here and replace the basket etc as I don't want him to loose confidence over a sticking clutch. I have never stripped down a clutch before so is there any chance you could post up a list of the parts you replaced, which would make my ordering a bit easier. Thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taffe Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 I would be very careful if banging two hammers together. Cheers Taff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dombush Posted November 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 Storminnorm Parts and tools you will need as well as a work schedule. Apologies if a little condescending:- Tools / consumables required containers for waste coolant and waste oil Allen keys, spanners, screwdrivers, pliers, rubber mallet (optional) Torque wrench and socket set. (8mm to 24mm) Clutch holding tool. (actually i improvised, but i wouldnt recommend this) Loctite 243 (optional) Centre punch, battery drill, drill bits, small punch Small hammer for rivetting (consider using a large punch as well) Dolly to rivett against (i used a large lump of steel) Grease (to lubricate o-rings, seals kickstart & brake pedal bearing etc.) Brake cleaner / degreasant Parts required Replacement light gearbox oil (450ml) Replacement coolant or antifreeze/water mix (get1 litre, actually a lot less) Clutch cover gasket Exhaust crush gasket Clutch basket, rivetts and cush rubbers Work schedule **********Allow 2 hours if experienced, 3- 4 hours if inexperienced******** Rear mudguard off, Turn fuel off, Disconnect fuel hose. Tank off Exhaust header pipe off (2 bolts at exhaust port). Can be left on, but easier if taken off. Drain gearbox oil by removing drain bolt. Loosen radiator cap. at headstock Prepare suitable fluid container, remove coolant drain screw and collect coolant Remove water pump cover (3 screws) and tie cover / hose out of the way Remove kick starter bolt and remove kick starter then clean shaft and splines. Check if brake pedal being pressed down would allow removal of clutch cover; (mine did) if not remove it. Remove all clutch cover screws, Remove clutch cover (may need a small tap with rubber mallet to break gasket line joint) jiggle cover off. Remove 6? clutch spring bolts and springs. Remove pressure plate, actuation components, thrust bearing (dont lose ball bearing in actuator collar). Leave clutch push-rod in situ. Reassemble all components and locate into removed pressure plate. Remove clutch plates and steel rings as a set (i tried to keep mine in same sequential order as a pack). Using a suitable clutch holding tool (splatshop sell one), hold the clutch stationary while removing the clutch hub nut. Remove the clutch hub, bolt, washer. Remove clutch basket. Note position and order of thrust washers and needle roller bearing. ********1/3 of the way through******** Follow Splatshop ring gear removal / reassembly & rivetting procedure. See blog section of splatshop website. ********2/3 of the way through******** Reassembly of the clutch / engine is the reverse of the dissasembly procedure. Consider degreasing and using some loctite 243 on the clutch hub nut (not strictly necessary but i did) Use the torques as specified in the pinned section of this forum. Refill gearbox with light gear oil (i used a 75w oil), Refill cooling system with antifreeze / water mix. Bleed air out of cooling system by kicking the engine over a couple of times with kill switch pressed.. Top up coolant and replace and tighten radiator cap. Make sure overflow hose remains clipped into top of radiator cap. ********Done********* probably forgotten things, but there it is. Dom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taffe Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 What a great informative post, thanks Dom. I made my own clutch tool and if it was possible to post photo's I would share the idea with you's all. Cheers Taff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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