Lol At The Fim

[outlaw dave]

Here's an idea - As most of the World Rounds have gone to "parking lot" sections around the final sign off - why not have the rest of the loop as "No stop" with the last couple as Stop allowed spectator sections. ?? That would seem to keep everybody happy.

[toofasttim]

Here's an idea - As most of the World Rounds have gone to "parking lot" sections around the final sign off - why not have the rest of the loop as "No stop" with the last couple as Stop allowed spectator sections. ?? That would seem to keep everybody happy.

Here's a another idea Dave: how much does that last section cost? Just dump it. If the venue is right there should be no probs finding a fifteenth section. Dump the obligatory "corporate hospitality" carp. Dump the hugely expensive press facilities etc....Bring the costs of organisation down.

Edited November 18, 2012 by toofasttim

[eddie_lejeune]

why not make trials like the scott world championship rounds

[toofasttim]

why not make trials like the scott world championship rounds

Because it's a world OBSERVED trials championship and not a time and observed championship.

[Andy]

Dump the hugely expensive press facilities

lol at your naivety. You clearly haven't seen the places we have to work. Yes there expenses around the organisational side such as providing hard-standing, water, electricity and the demands of the FIM, but I can absolutely assure you that press facilities is NOT one of them.

[eddie_lejeune]

Because it's a world OBSERVED trials championship and not a time and observed championship.

can things not be changed ie it was stop this year and no stop next year

[slapshot 3]

Ah sod it lets have a go..... Lot of clever sensible posts in this thread along with the usual element of bollox!

First thing is you're never going to please everybody in fact if you get to 50% your doing well and the rules of trials have been contentious ever since the first pivot turns and they will always be contentious, a 10 page thread with some of the vitriol in it tells you that.

I have a lot of sympathy for the current WTC riders especially the GB boys who have been pushed around a bit the last year or two with the changes but at the end of the day the rules are there and you have to ride them no matter whether you like them or not.

I've been around trials literally my whole life and I've seen trials at all levels and WTC rounds in every decade. I've not been at many in recent years and that maybe highlights my view. WTC has become something that effectively detached itself from the rest of the sport a long time ago and because of that my personal view is that it less important than the other big issues facing Trials.

Without wishing to offend anyone if folk can't see that WTC is so detached fom anything else in Trials they are kidding themsleves. We maybe have one or two A class schoolboys who can aspire to WTC in the long term but beyond that lets not kid ourselves once they get beyond the age limits of the Junior Category they are probably finished. It's unfortunate but in a championship class of ten or so there's no future for any of them unless there are major changes.

We've heard folk bleating on in various threads about the FIM doing nothing well now they have and folk are still bleating about it. The FIM like the ACU will do what they think is right to try and improve matters it's not in their interests to damage sport intentionally we just have to accept that. It's wrong though for folk to use the FIM decision to start giving other organisers grief.

The other thing about participation is money at every level......we are in the depths of a global depression, sport is fighting at every level to survive trials has to do that as well.

My thoughts come down to this, I'll travel to world rounds, use to love Belgium, but in recent years I've only gone to the two rounds we had up here however.....I'll do everything possible every year to ake sure I get to the Scottish and the Scott and when you see them and the numbers of people around them, the SSDT and the Richmond club are doing something right and maybe the governing bodies should take better look at what they are doing....just an opinion mind!!

[nigel dabster]

Some sensible points, but I would argue the FIM with a simple rule change with one press release is far from "doing something".

The other events that you mention are unique in style and spectacle, but would either be viable 10 times a year?

Edited November 19, 2012 by nigel dabster

[toofasttim]

lol at your naivety. You clearly haven't seen the places we have to work. Yes there expenses around the organisational side such as providing hard-standing, water, electricity and the demands of the FIM, but I can absolutely assure you that press facilities is NOT one of them.

WHAT! You mean you don't get naked girls in jacuzzis, free booze? Where's our license money going?

Actually I was thinking of the costs of installing the infrastructure (cable run from closest telephone exchange, gensets, routers etc). The cable run will be very expensive if it isn't already there and is, in telco parlance a repayable, meaning the customer pays for it. Considering the distance that the venues can be from the nearest exchange these costs can be very large indeed. With venues like Motegi it's already there so no biggie in that case.

Edited November 19, 2012 by toofasttim

[slapshot 3]

Some sensible points, but I would argue the FIM with a simple rule change with one press release is far from "doing something".

From the release........."With the aim of making Trial more accessible, reducing the level of the sections, creating more dynamism, reducing the costs and increasing practice and participation, additional measures will be taken in the coming months."

Did you read this paragraph Dabster?? Whatever the FIM do to change the rules if they don't suit "YOUR" view it's wrong..end of. If this is all they do it's pointless but I suspect there's more to come, what that will be who knows.

The other events that you mention are unique in style and spectacle, but would either be viable 10 times a year?

In years gone by trials were scored on observation but every trial had time limits as does WTC now so your earlier arguements on time fall flat, it should be the World Observed Trials Championships with Time Limits ;)

Yes the Scottish and Scott are different from WTCs but they have a dynamism that WTC has lacked since the early 90's and it's that dynamism that would drag me back to watch more often when I can. We used to have a British Championship that comprised 10 rounds based on a dynamic course with time limits. I remember rounds that folk stood ten deep to see riders compete, the fact that that changed should have started ringing alarm bells!!

There has to be fundamental change from what we have now Dabster, otherwise our sport at a top level is going to die a painful death and that would be wrong especially if with some changes it could be put right. Sticking heads in the sand has brought us to where we are the status quo is not the answer

[nigel dabster]

My view, what is "my view"? Clearly in this thread and the one on making trials more popular I have never said trials must remain stop allowed, moreover I have questioned the move to no stop in that it isn't enough.

What I have questioned is the wisdom and the reasons why anyone wants it to be no stop and how it would improove anything?

I have made several suggestions clear and positive so I am not sticking my head in the sand and that comment is clearly un true. In fact I would argue that the wtc is terminally ill and needs much much more than a rule change if it is to survive and whilst a press release suggests more to come lets see what these things which will bring more "dynamic" trials are before we say no stop is the panacea for our woes.

Do not understand the comment about trial times as the wtc has time limits in section,time for first lap, second lap, practice, section inspection, in fact everything????

[toofasttim]

otherwise our sport at a top level is going to die a painful death

I would argue that the wtc is terminally ill and needs much much more than a rule change

Consensus!

[city trials]

Note to self. Don't ever wander into a thread for the first time that's 10 pages long.

[baldilocks]

Note to self. Don't ever wander into a thread for the first time that's 10 pages long.

i walked into the kenny the rooster thread at about 10 pages and was over the moon !

[greeves]

Question: Quickest way to ruin trials and upset all the riders?

Answer: Follow the idiotic decisons of the ACU who (almost) had the balls to admit that the 2012 BTC was a totally sh*t borefest despised by the riders and ignored by fans and reverted to stop allowed for 2013.

Wow there's some imbeciles running this sport at a national and international level.

Hi, I would like to answer the first and opening post of this topic.

My answer is YES, definitely and seen thfough the point of view of a Stop rules trials fan, it is the quickest way to ruin trials and upset all the riders. Of course all riders that enjoy and prefer the Stop rules.

Unfortunately there are more riders worldwide that actually use non-stop rules than stop rules. Many of them limit their activity just to classic trials, or non competition trials, being no potential customers of motorcycle manufacturers, federations or motoclubs, and thus enhancing the slow death of our sport. Don´t forget the sport of all of us Stop or Non-Stop fans.

Unfortunately again, because of that, the problems of trials sport is not limited to a crusade Stop vs. No-Stop. In fact the dilemma if to stop or not to stop is a solution to the problems, not the problem "per se".

I find the attitude of the ACU to be very brave, and from the point of view of a Non-Stop fan, a very smart way of introducing Non-Stop both to FIM and to WTC top riders.

They will all for sure now test Non-Stop; and in the future they can all decide freely which way to go, if to stop or if to non-stop; or maybe both ways; why not?

I belive, think and desire that 2014 will bring us both a Stop and a Non-Stop WTC.