baldilocks Posted November 16, 2012 Report Share Posted November 16, 2012 good idea. thinking we need to open the sport to more participants if we can find them. in the euro multi day events they run a route where you can just ride the course and miss the sections out. This may be a way in for people without laying on another route depending on the course ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted November 16, 2012 Report Share Posted November 16, 2012 Biggest problem is a good starter bike like the old ty 80? Well said Nigel and i would add TY175. These two bikes alone possibly got more people into the sport than any other. Affordable, great VFM and almost bulletproof. How many modern bikes can you say that of?You can have all the media coverage you want but apart from massageing a few egos and making it easier to explain to colleagues how you spend your Sunday's it wont do jack 5hit unless people can afford to buy something to do it on that wont cost an arm and a leg and wont devalue by the hour plus will still be around for the little un to have a go on in a few years when they are ready. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted November 16, 2012 Report Share Posted November 16, 2012 .....Which is where the xispa and scorpa could come in? Reliability aside a cheap bike is a must? If the manufacturers want to do something (before its too late ) get together and build a modern ty? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilc0 Posted November 16, 2012 Report Share Posted November 16, 2012 Ican't see the manufacturers being able to make a modern TY80 for £450 though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted November 16, 2012 Report Share Posted November 16, 2012 Ican't see the manufacturers being able to make a modern TY80 for £450 though True but i think as long as the kids bike was sub £1500 and the 175 was sub £2000 then it would be there or thereabouts. Theres no reason at all that that shouldnt be attainable. the bike dont need to be cutting edge as they are an entry level / clubman machine. In fact doesnt need to be monoshock. The manufacturer could even promote a championship for these bikes. Struth at this price the dealers could even offer a rentabike / lease bike option with a guaranteed buy back after a year dependant on condition. Well they do it with cars why not ? It's their and our future they are investing in after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted November 17, 2012 Report Share Posted November 17, 2012 Very true. Surely a monoshock with no linkage is what we need something that doesnt need alot of looking after. For every loss leader thats sold parts and future sales would cover costs? Thinking of our easiest route/practice area where lads ride for fun and dont compete there must be a way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilc0 Posted November 17, 2012 Report Share Posted November 17, 2012 Maybe we can twist Yamahas hand and get them to do a trials version of the PW80, it would'nt take yamaha much to modify them into a trials bike. A new PW80 can be bought for just under £1500. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axulsuv Posted November 17, 2012 Report Share Posted November 17, 2012 Honda should step up and build a TL 80 / 125 . Quiet and simple ... How many of us rode a xr75 or the like as kids ?? It would be so simple for them to take a XR100 , steepen the fork angle, Change the spring rates and Dampening front & rear , move the pegs back and down , And put a skinny tank and tiny seat on it . Disc or drum don't matter ... And have a long ride seat and tank option ... and gear ratio's like the TL 125's had , 1st 2nd 3rd then overdrive 1 and overdrive 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted November 18, 2012 Report Share Posted November 18, 2012 Honda should step up and build a TL 80 / 125 . Quiet and simple ... How many of us rode a xr75 or the like as kids ?? It would be so simple for them to take a XR100 , steepen the fork angle, Change the spring rates and Dampening front & rear , move the pegs back and down , And put a skinny tank and tiny seat on it . Disc or drum don't matter ... And have a long ride seat and tank option ... and gear ratio's like the TL 125's had , 1st 2nd 3rd then overdrive 1 and overdrive 2 Simple and easy enough to do for a company like Honda,but the economics wont work for them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted November 18, 2012 Report Share Posted November 18, 2012 Agreed perhaps we have to look to China? or even a European entrepreneur to modify an existing Chinese dirt bike. In the old days various manufacturers used to buy in motors and fit to their own frame and cycle parts. After all all the TY's were developed from existing trail bikes even the TY80 had to be developed in secret by MA and mechanic then launched to dealers as the factory didnt think it worthwhile. History now tells us who was right and who was wrong. Just as an afterthought remember the old RTX ? ok everybody thought they were crap at the time but wasnt that because we were comparing them to cutting edge product not viewing them as an entry level machine and grasping the opportunity they could have presented? Participation as has been said so many times is the key but to participate you need something to participate on wherever it comes from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axulsuv Posted November 18, 2012 Report Share Posted November 18, 2012 (edited) Why not ? .... I was at the local Honda/yamaha/Kawasaki/can-am/suzuki dealer / megastore yesterday picking up some FMF packing for my silencers , getting ready for this winters maintenance sessions. And I couldn't help but notice the X-mas Displays of bikes were all set out already... In each display was a kids bike of one type or another , next to the teenagers bike of the same brand on up to the big dirt and street bikes and 4 wheelers , All pushing brand loyalty ... (except for the Can Ams , they just have the big 3 wheeled thing here now) . They all make mini quads , and dirt bikes and midsize dirt bikes that have to be loss leaders , but the kids get to have a bike that looks like dads ... A CRF 150 would make a great CHEAP trials bike with some tweeks at the factory level . But you're most likely correct , The big 4 tried to get trials to the masses in the 70's using the same basic concept I'm presenting , they were all basically modified enduro bike motors in trials type frames , And alot of them just sat on showroom floors looking cool even way back when they were new . It may still be the same old train of thought ... Going fast is easy and Flashy , Slow and controlled takes practice and commitment . Glenn Edited November 18, 2012 by axulsuv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted November 18, 2012 Report Share Posted November 18, 2012 Agreed perhaps we have to look to China? or even a European entrepreneur to modify an existing Chinese dirt bike. In the old days various manufacturers used to buy in motors and fit to their own frame and cycle parts. After all all the TY's were developed from existing trail bikes even the TY80 had to be developed in secret by MA and mechanic then launched to dealers as the factory didnt think it worthwhile. History now tells us who was right and who was wrong. Just as an afterthought remember the old RTX ? ok everybody thought they were crap at the time but wasnt that because we were comparing them to cutting edge product not viewing them as an entry level machine and grasping the opportunity they could have presented? Participation as has been said so many times is the key but to participate you need something to participate on wherever it comes from. Thr RTX really wasnt very good at all, and too much brass. thinking out loud perhaps there should be a £1000 class where anyone has the right to buy your bike for 1k regardless of style age etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purplebeast Posted November 18, 2012 Report Share Posted November 18, 2012 Methinks there is too much reminiscing for the old bikes. Want to get kids into trials.....OSET now has everything up to a 20" wheel, at much more reasonable prices and decent resale from what I hear. Once they graduate from the 20", a used 150 or 200 would likely be the ticket. I think much of the problem is actually illustrated by many of the prior suggestions that the manufacturers need to fix the problem. They are not going to....they won't jump on a market, especially in this economy, until there is a market. That means activism at the grassroots level. Pointing at mfgrs, WTC, dealers, etc. as needing to solve the problem won't fly, Getting kids on OSETs, trials bicycles and out to trials events, including WTC level stuff to see the big stunts, is what will do it. More exposure at the local/community level. Stop your whining about no bikes at a reasonable price, and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT instead. <sheesh> How many new kids, or adults for that matter, have you introduced to the sport this past year? Apathy ain't gonna fix this, boys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted November 18, 2012 Report Share Posted November 18, 2012 We introduced a youth championship class but as yet have only recieved less than a handfull of entries however locally the YMSA do regularly get 100+ turnouts from all over the country so there is "participation" already. Perhaps there isnt a problem at all? Perhaps we just think there is? Perhaps we couldnt handle a flood of entries if it happened? I know our club when it hold trials with over 50 entries suffers from queues which is one of the main complaints as CoC i recieve wouldnt a massive influx of entries from whatever age group exacerbate this? I only suggested the bikes because it has worked in the past. Perhaps the youf of today has moved on and with the invention of the dreaded games console they just want instant gratification and cant be ar5ed to put the hours in assuming the bank of mummy and daddy are happy to finance to purchase of a new bike etc every season. Most "parents" are too busy chasing the latest plasma screen or whatever makes them feel a sucess to run little Johnny or Jean around to practice and trials. Most if not all the riders i know took it up because they had family who rode or knew friends who rode i cant think of anybody who took it up solely due to reading or seeing a video. As an aside we all had bikes before we were 12 and rode them on the local tip then one local guy turned up on a Bultaco and it just blew my mind when i saw what he could do on it. From that moment i was hooked and my £10 stripped down road bike was history. I pestered my parents got two paper rounds and a Saturday job and bought a Greeves Scottish for £35, wish i still had it LOL, and entered my first trial and probably came last it was that long ago i cant remember. It was all down to that rider turning up at the tip to practice. Well that plus the fact that there was a group of us already riding old what we would now call "field bikes" so i suppose we were just waiting to be shown the light. Then again as others have said land access then wasnt the problem it is now plus there were loads of old bikes at the bottom of their owners garden for a tenner or less just waiting to be reborn. So perhaps it comes down to availability and opportunity both bikes and land but none of us had even heard about the Scottish or European championship, remember there was no WTC then, so it wasnt us trying to emulate the gods of trials that inspired us just a local clubman on a trials bike practising. Have things really changed so much? It was the artistry and efficiancy of movement that hooked me i wanted to be that rider and going around our makeshift circuit no longer held any fascination for me. I was going to be a Trials Rider. Now 48 years on i'm not much better in ability but i have so many rich and rewarding memories and have met so many good and long lasting friends and thats all because of Trials. first and foremost i am and always be a Trials rider. Sorry i'm having a "boring old fart" moment back to the point of the thread. I think everything starts at grass roots level and whatever happens at the WTC BTC or whatever has bu66er all to do with grass roots club trials which is actually what keeps the sport going. The costs for the uninitiated and undedicated just frighten them off when a skateboard or BMX can be bought for the cost of a couple of trials tyres. It's no use showing people what they cant aspire to. Bit like me licking the window at the local Aston Martin dealership. I aspire to one but know i'll never own one so it will just stay a dream. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0007 Posted November 18, 2012 Report Share Posted November 18, 2012 Sadly manufacturers look simply at a business plan, they would look at getting a reasonable market share in the category in question and then calculate an R&D budget, to see if it would be profitable in the time frame they decide upon With the worldwide numbers of trials bike sales, a big company like Yamaha would not invest in it, lets just say they want 25% market share (which is aiming high) the number is just not big enough to be profitable when you consider millions of $ in R&D costs It's not a market that is poorly represented by brands so consider that as soon as you introduce a new idea like an entry level model, and lets just say it was successful, then Beta, Gas Gas, Montesa and Sherco would all jump in for their piece of the pie, so profitability would be short lived I would say that the Japanese would probably not be interested but the existing trials brands should definitely look at developing a simple and inexpensive entry level 200cc bike and try to market it as Retro to appeal to Grandpa who used to ride, he buys 2 so he can put his Grandkids on them One thing is certain, all of the brands are competing for the same customer, top of the line only 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.