knobbly Posted November 18, 2012 Report Share Posted November 18, 2012 Hi I have aquired a lightly used(cases look to have never been apart) Sherco 2001 2.5 after my previous Gas Gas 98 TX270 was stolen(if it was you, its kept elsewhere-tough luck) In comparison I have a few observations and any advice to improve it would be most welcome. The good 1) The power is much more controlable, the 270 was NEVER fully opened up in a section and had more power than I ever needed. Indeed it was so abrupt off the bottom that it was to a wobbler like me all but unrideable in tight going untill I fitted Boyeson reeds. The 2.5 has enough power, but not so much that controlling it becomes more difficult than getting through the section. Not so good In general it seems a slighly flimsier bike with a less of a finish and lower spec componants 1) The kickstart often slips on the first notch of the ratchet. Is it just the ratchet gear and pawl that need to be replaced or can a weak spring or other issue cause problems? I have been quoted £85 for all the parts to repair, but was unable to find out what thay were as they "never give problems" so the quote appeared to be the full set of gears, springs etc. 2) The kickstart lever spring and ball is not keeping the lever from swinging out. The spring looks like one from a ball point pen! It's not that strong and perhaps too long as it's a devil of a job to assemble. Does that seem like the right one? 3) The dual piston brakes are wooden and not very powerfull, almost as if a piston is seized until I squeeze harder when they do work. My 270 had a after-market Galfer 4 piston front brake which was both far lighter in action and controlable. Is this all I can hope for, or can I inprove with better pads etc. 4) Now I weigh 17 stones and the non-adjustable suspension is far softer with little "feel". The forks I think I can live with, but dont appear to be in the same league as the Gas Gas. The rear is more of a problem as its far too soft. I never noticed the Gas Gas bottoming ever causing problems in sections. Even with the preload increased it does not cope. Can shocks from other bikes(Gas Gas with the optional stiffer yellow spring perhaps?) be used as a new Ohlins etc is silly on a bike that cost £500. 5) The steering is nowhere near as sharp as the Gas Gas which was knife edge, perhaps its due to the excessive rear sag? 6) The clutch appears to be slipping at times in 5th(which probably means it's on its last legs) is it a weak point and is it just the fibre plates that need replacing or do the springs get weak with age? A lot to discuss here, but any help will be gratefully recieved. Regards Nigel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copemech Posted November 19, 2012 Report Share Posted November 19, 2012 Hi I have aquired a lightly used(cases look to have never been apart) Sherco 2001 2.5 after my previous Gas Gas 98 TX270 was stolen(if it was you, its kept elsewhere-tough luck) In comparison I have a few observations and any advice to improve it would be most welcome. The good 1) The power is much more controlable, the 270 was NEVER fully opened up in a section and had more power than I ever needed. Indeed it was so abrupt off the bottom that it was to a wobbler like me all but unrideable in tight going untill I fitted Boyeson reeds. The 2.5 has enough power, but not so much that controlling it becomes more difficult than getting through the section. Not so good In general it seems a slighly flimsier bike with a less of a finish and lower spec componants 1) The kickstart often slips on the first notch of the ratchet. Is it just the ratchet gear and pawl that need to be replaced or can a weak spring or other issue cause problems? I have been quoted £85 for all the parts to repair, but was unable to find out what thay were as they "never give problems" so the quote appeared to be the full set of gears, springs etc. 2) The kickstart lever spring and ball is not keeping the lever from swinging out. The spring looks like one from a ball point pen! It's not that strong and perhaps too long as it's a devil of a job to assemble. Does that seem like the right one? 3) The dual piston brakes are wooden and not very powerfull, almost as if a piston is seized until I squeeze harder when they do work. My 270 had a after-market Galfer 4 piston front brake which was both far lighter in action and controlable. Is this all I can hope for, or can I inprove with better pads etc. 4) Now I weigh 17 stones and the non-adjustable suspension is far softer with little "feel". The forks I think I can live with, but dont appear to be in the same league as the Gas Gas. The rear is more of a problem as its far too soft. I never noticed the Gas Gas bottoming ever causing problems in sections. Even with the preload increased it does not cope. Can shocks from other bikes(Gas Gas with the optional stiffer yellow spring perhaps?) be used as a new Ohlins etc is silly on a bike that cost £500. 5) The steering is nowhere near as sharp as the Gas Gas which was knife edge, perhaps its due to the excessive rear sag? 6) The clutch appears to be slipping at times in 5th(which probably means it's on its last legs) is it a weak point and is it just the fibre plates that need replacing or do the springs get weak with age? A lot to discuss here, but any help will be gratefully recieved. Regards Nigel 1- Generally, the kicker likes a more positive engagement to prevent slipping. A light initial prod may get you a slip. 2- The spring is supposed to be better than that. Possibly changed. Is the ball correct? 3-I thought I recalled the '01 bike having the front 4 piston caliper, yet I could be wrong. Never the less they are strong if working properly. A new set of Galfer pads properly seated will likely cure that. What is in it? 4-5- The rear may be too soft for your weight. I cannot recall if this is a Sachs or Ollie shock, might check with Splatshop Chris for a proper spring. 6- They don't generally slip unless well worn and crap oil. Might even pull the outer cover to insure all the springs are installed as comeone may have removed a couple.. &- What do you want for L500 ? There is nothing on a Sherco another 500 will not fix from time to time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy Posted November 19, 2012 Report Share Posted November 19, 2012 I had an issue with my 2000 2.9 clutch slipping in 4th and 5th gears. Turns out the top fiber plate was installed one set of grooves off. There is a set of grooves in the basket that goes all the way to the bottom and then there is basically a notch between the grooves that does NOT go all the way down. my top plate was in that notch so the top plate was not being fully pressed against the rest of the plates. Also had the 2 piston front brake and it worked like crap I changed pads, brake line, bled it a million times. but when I did a rebuild of the caliper it worked AWESOME after that, replaced seals and pistons and was just like new. When kickstarting take up the initial little bit of slack (kicker won't move much) and you should feel the kicker engage and then it is just a strong smooth kick and it should go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copemech Posted November 20, 2012 Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 (edited) I had an issue with my 2000 2.9 clutch slipping in 4th and 5th gears. Turns out the top fiber plate was installed one set of grooves off. There is a set of grooves in the basket that goes all the way to the bottom and then there is basically a notch between the grooves that does NOT go all the way down. my top plate was in that notch so the top plate was not being fully pressed against the rest of the plates. Also had the 2 piston front brake and it worked like crap I changed pads, brake line, bled it a million times. but when I did a rebuild of the caliper it worked AWESOME after that, replaced seals and pistons and was just like new. When kickstarting take up the initial little bit of slack (kicker won't move much) and you should feel the kicker engage and then it is just a strong smooth kick and it should go. I know what Zipper is referring to as far as the top friction plate. It seems they come that way. I can see this being a potential issue as the plates wear, yet I cannot think of any other reason to do it other than in an effort to help prevent chutch chattering when fully revving out the bike in gear with clutch pulled. Not uncommon! Edited November 20, 2012 by copemech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy Posted November 20, 2012 Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 I know what Zipper is referring to as far as the top friction plate. It seems they come that way. I can see this being a potential issue as the plates wear, yet I cannot think of any other reason to do it other than in an effort to help prevent chutch chattering when fully revving out the bike in gear with clutch pulled. Not uncommon! And here I thought it was just installed incorrectly....apparently the plates had worn enough to cause a problem, slipping went away after putting the plate in the other groove. and it shifted the same as before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knobbly Posted November 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 Thank you all for your messages. I am making a little progress. 1)The kickstart has some serious issues as its not returning to its correct position after use as well as slipping. I have found a second hand set and will aquire these before stripping as a full new set of parts will be over £100 not the £85 previously quoted. 2)The kickstart locating ball spring is the wrong one as there is a pic of the correct spring on the Splatshop site, so a few pennies should sort that one. 3)Having removed the front wheel, one piston is moving more than the other when no pads are fitted and the brakes pumped. Is this correct, or does it indicate new seals/pistons are required. The EBC pads are fitted with a scooter compound no less, so it appears the AJP calipers were used on many bikes with only compound changes. Is the Galfer compound the best available? I have not found any so far and after reading the EBC info there are so many compounds available fixed to the same backing pad and I want to make sure that I buy the best one for my needs. I assume that similar issues will occur when I strip the rear caliper so it may just be pads to sort the brakes 4) There appears to be little option other than a new shock to stiffen up the rear. I have a lead on a used Ohlins, which will perhaps be sensible way for ward. For the forks, I was wondering what other springs may fit. Later versions use one stiffer spring,has anyone managed to use one of those in conjunction with the originals to stiffen up the forks. This is a common problem on Sherco's as there are many similar topics on this site, but no-one has mentioned how they solved the problem. Has anyone added extra oil to stiffen up the last few inches of travel as that may help 5)The steering cannot be judged untill the rear suspension is sorted, I have found no mention of steering complaints on here so will assume it will be fine with a decent shock. 6) The clutch is yet to be stripped as I will have to atack the bolts with a chisel. It looks to have never been apart, but I have few options here: a)Roughen up the plates a little b)Check there the correct number of springs fitted, espcially as the clutch is very light c)Add some washers under the springs. d)Check on the oil in the gearbox, it might be thin 0W30 car oil complete with friction modifiers that would upset the applecart e)Fit new springs, does anyone know what the free length should be when new. f)Fit the top plate "incorrectly" to see if that helps, its a mystery as to why its fitted this way to start anyway! g)Fit new friction plates. I hope that these issues do not take the most expensive option to sort out as it will cost almost £900! with tyres and the bargain bike becomes a moneypit that takes me into the £1400 range where some really nice bikes become available. It does look nice and really has done little as the controls are still tight, taking emotion out of it and silly as it seems,I might be better off scrapping it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copemech Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 (edited) Thank you all for your messages. I am making a little progress. 1)The kickstart has some serious issues as its not returning to its correct position after use as well as slipping. I have found a second hand set and will aquire these before stripping as a full new set of parts will be over £100 not the £85 previously quoted. 2)The kickstart locating ball spring is the wrong one as there is a pic of the correct spring on the Splatshop site, so a few pennies should sort that one. 3)Having removed the front wheel, one piston is moving more than the other when no pads are fitted and the brakes pumped. Is this correct, or does it indicate new seals/pistons are required. The EBC pads are fitted with a scooter compound no less, so it appears the AJP calipers were used on many bikes with only compound changes. Is the Galfer compound the best available? I have not found any so far and after reading the EBC info there are so many compounds available fixed to the same backing pad and I want to make sure that I buy the best one for my needs. I assume that similar issues will occur when I strip the rear caliper so it may just be pads to sort the brakes 4) There appears to be little option other than a new shock to stiffen up the rear. I have a lead on a used Ohlins, which will perhaps be sensible way for ward. For the forks, I was wondering what other springs may fit. Later versions use one stiffer spring,has anyone managed to use one of those in conjunction with the originals to stiffen up the forks. This is a common problem on Sherco's as there are many similar topics on this site, but no-one has mentioned how they solved the problem. Has anyone added extra oil to stiffen up the last few inches of travel as that may help 5)The steering cannot be judged untill the rear suspension is sorted, I have found no mention of steering complaints on here so will assume it will be fine with a decent shock. 6) The clutch is yet to be stripped as I will have to atack the bolts with a chisel. It looks to have never been apart, but I have few options here: a)Roughen up the plates a little b)Check there the correct number of springs fitted, espcially as the clutch is very light c)Add some washers under the springs. d)Check on the oil in the gearbox, it might be thin 0W30 car oil complete with friction modifiers that would upset the applecart e)Fit new springs, does anyone know what the free length should be when new. f)Fit the top plate "incorrectly" to see if that helps, its a mystery as to why its fitted this way to start anyway! g)Fit new friction plates. I hope that these issues do not take the most expensive option to sort out as it will cost almost £900! with tyres and the bargain bike becomes a moneypit that takes me into the £1400 range where some really nice bikes become available. It does look nice and really has done little as the controls are still tight, taking emotion out of it and silly as it seems,I might be better off scrapping it! I took logic in skool an it is obvious you are fat, cheap and do not comprehend well, but I do like you! 1- Kicker is unlikely to fully return less you let it fly back. This is normal. 2- one puc is allways going to move before the other, life is not perfect, go figure! Order the Galfer pads from Splatshop, put them in , seat them a bit, then intentionally do a few hard stops and douse the disks with water and let them steam off a couple times, then you will know what you got, as them other pads are likely crap! 3- did you ask about a spring for your fat asss? I may also mention here the fact the rear delta link did change in 04 or so. The newer link seems to raise the rear up a bit. May be worth considering. 4- The forks do normally work, and there is some adjustability. You may add a bit of preload spacer, the standard oil fill is 330ml per leg and one could add a bit(10-20ml possibly) to tighten headspace of the air under compression. You may also compress the forks and vent the tops before a section to sag the front a bit for better turning, but the o-rings need to seal well, and I normally use a slightly larger diameter american o-ring to get the seal under vacume. 5% w oil is normal, you may try 7.5 for your weight. Now stop complaining and see if you can sort your clutch. Cheers, I will av another now! Edited November 25, 2012 by copemech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knobbly Posted December 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 Progress is being made and now need to finally sort the shock situation. Rebuilding the stocker with a stiffer spring and perhaps a new shaft is I have found out so much, than an ohlins makes some sense. My shock measures 255mm and a 2002 Is I have been told 260mm (so may be wrong). Does anyone know what the correct lengths are over the years, as there is no definate information on here that I can find. I have a lead on a second hand ohlins with vague information. Either way buying new or old I want to get the correct length Ohlins. Thank you again to all that have helped Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copemech Posted December 18, 2012 Report Share Posted December 18, 2012 The stock shock did change length slightly in "06 or so as I recall, yet they should interchange with no problem. The "06 was problematic though, so stay away from them. Anything else through "09 should work fine. Splatshop Chris has the exact numbers, some years fit with the body down, some will only fit with the body up, depending upon year. Makes no difference in operation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knobbly Posted December 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2012 Will a Ohlins shock from a 2012 fit my 2001? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copemech Posted December 19, 2012 Report Share Posted December 19, 2012 Will a Ohlins shock from a 2012 fit my 2001? Once again, Splat Chris has the measures, however as I recall, the new bikes use a slightly wider mount on top, so likely the shock would fit but may need different bushes for the top rose joint. Good thing about the ohlins are spring availability in the ranges, so one could carry the shock to a newer bike later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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