Date Clashes

[woody]

I know it must be difficult when fixing dates due to so many fixtures now and different organising bodies involved, but there are three date clashes for two of the main Pre65 road based series this year. The Miller championship and the Northern British Bike series.

Both have events on 24th March, 14th July and 13th October. Both of the events on the 14th July are in Yorkshire so that is going to hit one series badly in terms of Pre65 entries.

The Miller series is down to 7 rounds this year and for the life of me I can't understand why it isn't better supported by Pre65 entries, especially when you see the number of entries for Scotland. Two routes to choose from means a perfect balance of sections for standard to modified machines, but for some events the numbers are quite low. I can't believe cost is a factor when riders can pay huge sums for modified Pre65 bikes and many riders have more than one...

These road events are slowly diminishing and need supporting to make it worthwhile for the hardworking organisers to stage them. Once they're gone, they'll never come back.

Maybe Scotland should have a qualifying criteria - riders must have taken part in so many national events to gain entry, rather than riding just once a year...

[b40rt]

"Maybe Scotland should have a qualifying criteria - riders must have taken part in so many national events to gain entry, rather than riding just once a year..."

How many events in Scotland would riders have to participate in to qualify for the Scottish ? 5? 10?

Not many would qualify, a few from the North East, one from Spain, a few from Scotland.

Sorry Woody, this has nothing to do with Scotland.

Edited January 6, 2013 by b40rt

[woody]

Ross, it was only tongue in cheek

But, I do think it's a shame that a series like the Miller doesn't always get the support it could get, given the amount of work that goes into organising them. It's as though there's a 'status' attached to riding Scotland that riders need in order to add a bit of gloss to their 'CV', whereas the Miller series barely gives it a dull sheen or doesn't have the same acclaim.

Shame, as they are enjoyable trials and not overly demanding, which, from what I read on here, seems to be what most want from classic trials.

[pitley]

Rode the greensmith sammy round last year after a long lay off, had a great days sport, shame the series is down to 7 rounds this year.

Edited January 6, 2013 by pitley

[b40rt]

Ross, it was only tongue in cheek

But, I do think it's a shame that a series like the Miller doesn't always get the support it could get, given the amount of work that goes into organising them. It's as though there's a 'status' attached to riding Scotland that riders need in order to add a bit of gloss to their 'CV', whereas the Miller series barely gives it a dull sheen or doesn't have the same acclaim.

Shame, as they are enjoyable trials and not overly demanding, which, from what I read on here, seems to be what most want from classic trials.

Dave, I'm jelous that your so spoilt for choice, but I do take your point.

[old trials fanatic]

Not wishing to hijack but why should'nt the Scottish pre65 2 day have a qualifying criteria ? well in addition to the one it already has.

Back to the dates clashes issue perhaps if they could be bothered to announce their dates a damn site earlier then we could all try not to clash with each other. Alway been a problem even when we were ACU the Nationals never published their date till the new year while the clubs had to submit date to the Centre dates meeting by November. Bloody ridiculous lets not forget the NBBR and sammy Miller rounds have a negative effect on Club trials too

[charlie prescott]

Hi Guys,

Just proves a point again, what we are doing to the Classic scene in the UK.

No thought is ever given to who is doing what, and one group pulls against another.Like Dave says when it's gone it's gone and it will not return without a lot of work. I am afraid it is the old school ,again running things like it used to be without any thought to the future. Or even the next day.

We all know it is time for a change before it is to late, but how do we go about it ? And get you guys to respond???

Regards Charlie.

[rabie]

its the same in enduro, mx and trials - your always waiting for some other bigger event to be announced or not, which then affects something else, something else, then you. the ACU sat (???) on the BTC dates for ages leaving a lot of stuff up in the air, i'm sure they had their reasons, but these events will affect other that affect sammy millers. at the same time i bet hese club had to have their dates in and sorted well in advance of publication, some bits of land can only be used in narrow windows, while neighbouring events, etc also play a part. it seams you can't win....

[stickinthemud]

Hi Woody - we at the Yorkshire Classic are working on sorting the 14th July dates clash. The Ilkley trial was originally posted on the ACU web site as the 23rd June but shown on their web site as the 21st July. As we had already booked Cockhill Mines for our two day for 21st July and they pass through on their event, I contacted them only to find that they had finalised it for the 14th July the published date of our West Riding NBBC round!

The NBBC rounds were published sometime ago so I can't think there's much more they could do.

We'll try to sort out our round as both events' entries will suffer if not.

As to why the number of Sammy Miller rounds have depleted, could it be something to do with the return of the Trials and Rallies Regulations from 1969? Originally run by the RAC, they caused chaos back then when we had to ride without numbers or road marking to get round the requirements. The law then seemed to be quietly forgotten. The MSA were handed the responsiblity when the RAC opted out not too long ago and it seems as though they decided that it should be resurected. This means every road going event should apply to the MSA for permision to use the route. If a car rally uses the same route within a 6 week period then the route cannot be used! Local publicity is required to warn residents. Riders names and addresses to be provided 10 days before etc - it's a nightmare! Maybe it's the £3 per rider the MSA will receive for giving permission.

The ACU say the law must be followed. The AMCA's advise is to the contrary. All that extra work is sure to put people off - and that's if the route is approved as you can only apply a max of 6 months before the event. Oh and it is supposed to be first come first served. So if an important car rally clashes with a bike trial, who wins?

Edited January 8, 2013 by stickinthemud

[woody]

That's good news that you may be able to rearrange, I was hoping to ride a few PJ1 rounds this year, so keeping my fingers crossed that any rearranged date doesn't clash with something else.

As I said originally, it wasn't intended as criticism of anyone, there are so many events these days, events on the same date are difficult to avoid always - my club still gets date clashes with the local AMCA clubs occasionally, despite us all trying to do everything to avoid it.

It was just sod's law I thought, that of the few traditional road based events that are left, we have three clashes... Just screaming out loud rather than criticising.

As regards the support for the Miller rounds, the number of overall entries for each event is quite good but when you look at the class breakdown, there are sidecars and trail bikes in there as well as British and twinshock solos and it's the number of British 2-stroke and Unit classes that aren't as well supported as they used to be - in comparison say to the average PJ1 entry and of course Scotland or the Manx Classic.

I take your point about the MSA requirements and this may well affect future road based events, although that is a different issue from the the number of Pre65 entries in the events over the last few years. I always thought that trials was automatic approval as if you look at the criteria for automatic approval, a trial seems to meet it fully. Interesting that the AMCA are continuing as they were because I agree with you, the amount of paperwork and hoops you have to jump through now is enough to deter anyone with a full time job and family commitments from wanting to get involved in organising a road trial.

[mattsccm]

Couple of points. The MSA ruling has been in force for years and there has been no reason to ignore it and break the law. Want to risk everything?

It's no hassle. Try doing a cross border event from England to Wales as I have C of Cing the Wyegate for years. That actually is the biggest bind as we pay 2 sets of fees. The one to Wales is slightly cheaper even though its 70 odd miles than the English one for 20ish.

Anyway, date clashes. ACU fault. The mess about with the national dates and thus at CtoC level we can't set a date.

Every year we clash with Adrian Moss's events or would do if not careful and I am sure other clubs. Why? Because there is no way of knowing what some one else is thinking , short of having one whopping big national data base that is a first come first served set up. Quite how one centre is expected to know what one the other side of the country is doing baffles me. Dates in the Western centre are short and clashes out of centre will happen.

I suspect that those who worry about clashes are not really aware of the dates issues Eg we can't use our Wyegate start on Mothers day for example. Maybe I miss something?

[stickinthemud]

Sorry guys. We tried. Unfortunately we have been unable to find a suitable alternative date. So both the NBBC West Riding Trial and the Ilkley Yorkshire Dales Sammy Miller round will be held on the 14th July with the starts less than 30 miles apart.

We had hoped to move to the 7th July but the Scarborough 2 day is being held that weekend and the NBBC series organisers had already arranged to be at a joint event with the Midland Classic Club. All other dates around that time have problems so it's back to our original date.

The Ilkley Club had already been moved twice to avoid the World round and the Richmond 3 day so don't wish to move.

Hopefully next year we can let the involved clubs know earlier to avoid a repeat.

[woody]

At least you tried so the effort for doing that is appreciated

Clashes by Nationals with club and centre events is and always has been inevitable and even more likely now with so many additional events on the calendar in comparison to 20 / 30 years ago. Can't be helped. The Greensmith Miller round usually clashes with the Lakes 2 day for example, so I don't get to ride the Greensmith too often. The Nostalgia usually clashed with another Miller round and my own club's 2 day club trial and we now have an excellent modern 2 day road based trial around the same period, so another potential clash. Just one of those things.

But hopefully, next year, the national classic events can avoid each other to the benefit of all.

[b40rt]

It's a shame that clashes within a 70 mile radius can't be avoided.

[totalshell]

disgraceful... and i dont know who to blame.. the two biggest trials of my year are the ilkley and the west riding.. they are the only twinshock /pre65 road trials in the area and now there both on the same day.. what an almighty (insert appropriate word) up.

what will happen.. the 20 pre65 riders who ride the ilkley and the northern bike series will almost certainly ride the west riding. i will as i have to support my club but I m absolutely gutted i m going to miss my road trial on my honda.. as an aside this means tha ti wont have to have an acu licence this year, the honda will be declared sorn.. will not be taxed or mot'd and will have no money spent on it for a year.. is that the best way to keep the sport alive..is this the way the acu meets its objective of increasing participation..