mr neutron Posted January 12, 2013 Report Share Posted January 12, 2013 Hey, All!!! I apologize if this has already been covered. I did a "SEARCH" using terms like "clutch removal" & "removing clutch", and basically struck out. Here's my problem: I'm trying to remove the clutch on my 2010 280 Pro model. I'm to the point where I need to remove the 4mm allen bolt in the center of the clutch. The bolt on my bike appears to be "stripped", and at the least, is VERY shallow. The once 6-sided hole of that allen bolt is now more or less rounded, from what I can see. I probably was the one that did this. The hex key I have that is long enough to reach down to that bolt is one with a "ball end" on one end, and that's the end I tried to use, before reaozing the hole was really shallow on that goofy bolt..... Has anybody else had this trouble when removing the clutch's center bolt that holds it to the transmission shaft? If so, how did you beat this problem? All I can think to do right now is try drilling a shollow hole into the center of that pesky bolt, and then try using an Easy Out to get that bolt out. I'm hoping someone else may know of a little easier or cleaner solution..... Thanks! Jimmie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jse Posted January 12, 2013 Report Share Posted January 12, 2013 Hey, All!!! I apologize if this has already been covered. I did a "SEARCH" using terms like "clutch removal" & "removing clutch", and basically struck out. Here's my problem: I'm trying to remove the clutch on my 2010 280 Pro model. I'm to the point where I need to remove the 4mm allen bolt in the center of the clutch. The bolt on my bike appears to be "stripped", and at the least, is VERY shallow. The once 6-sided hole of that allen bolt is now more or less rounded, from what I can see. I probably was the one that did this. The hex key I have that is long enough to reach down to that bolt is one with a "ball end" on one end, and that's the end I tried to use, before reaozing the hole was really shallow on that goofy bolt..... Has anybody else had this trouble when removing the clutch's center bolt that holds it to the transmission shaft? If so, how did you beat this problem? All I can think to do right now is try drilling a shollow hole into the center of that pesky bolt, and then try using an Easy Out to get that bolt out. I'm hoping someone else may know of a little easier or cleaner solution..... Thanks! Jimmie Try cutting about 5mm off the end of all your Allen wrenches to remove the worn flutes that caused the stripped capscrew. Use a Torx bit (can't remember if a T-25 or T-30) as an "eazy out", tap in to the capscrew and then back out with a wrench. Replace the special capscrew with the Gas Gas part as the hole in it acts as breather for the transmission case. Jon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr neutron Posted January 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2013 (edited) Hi Jon!!! Jon, I am really, really appreciative of your help here Sir! And in Trials & Enduro News also! Unfortunately, I already did try the tricks of grinding off an allen wrench to get nice sharp edges, as well as attempting to mash a Torx bit into that hole. And I pretty much "struck out". Every tool I put in there got rounded off. Or, the 6-sided allen hole got more rounded off. I'm afraid it's possibly going to call for more "drastic" measures..... But I didn't know the little hole in the middle of this bolt served as a vent from the tranny to the clutch side of the case. Is it primarily for tranny fluid, or air? And if I go drilling in this bolt, like I mentioned above (to get an EZ Out in there), metal chips may be able to get into the transmission side of things, correct? Oh boy.... I've done it this time..... Thanks again! Jimmie Edited January 12, 2013 by mr neutron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laser1 Posted January 12, 2013 Report Share Posted January 12, 2013 Correct - that hole goes through and so could chips. I remember my dad had the same problem one time and greased up a left hand drill and "luckily" got the bolt to spin out on its own before going all the way into the transmission cavity. The chips he did have stuck to the grease. He seemed to be lucky using his left hand drill method on several other bolts as I recall. Im sure if it was me, it wouldnt have been the case. If your going to drill it - you may want to try it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr neutron Posted January 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2013 Hmmmm. Thanks, Laser1! Again, I truly appreciate your help also! Ya know, that left hand drill trick sounds like that may be the ticket! Now I'm off in search of a left hand drill! Thanks, Mah Man!!! Jimmie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laser1 Posted January 12, 2013 Report Share Posted January 12, 2013 No problemo - hope it works for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugenevd Posted January 12, 2013 Report Share Posted January 12, 2013 I'm not sure what your situation looks like, but would an impact tools (like impact screw driver/impact allen key thing?) be possible here? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cursed Posted January 12, 2013 Report Share Posted January 12, 2013 The drill is not the way to do it bud. Likelihood is is that you will just drill into the bolt and it won't turn. If this happens and you drill the head off the bolt, then you really are rolloxed. The bolt SHOULD be loctited in there, so needs a sharp crack to get it out. You'll also get swarf everywhere inside the engine which is not good.. The best way is as said, to get a torx in there. Get the size ever so slightly bigger than the current hole, use a screwdriver type bit, and put it on the end of the screwdriver and hammer it in. When you do this lay the bike over, get a light and make sure it goes in straight, and make sure you you hit it in pretty far (you do actually have to hit quite hard). Then turn and hope and it should work, if not, hit it in further and try again. Replace with an OEM replacement. You'll probably ruin the torx bit and if your screwdriver handle is plastic, that too lol, but it's worth it for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lineaway Posted January 12, 2013 Report Share Posted January 12, 2013 Just use a dab of grease, drill the head off. Remove the clutch, the bolt should come out easy. You can ride with out the bolt until you get the correct one. It is a hollow bolt ment as a oil passage. When the pros first came out the bolt was removed to give better oil flow.(we also left them out since we had to work on the clutch constantly in `02 and `03!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr neutron Posted January 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2013 I'm not sure what your situation looks like, but would an impact tools (like impact screw driver/impact allen key thing?) be possible here? It might if I owned the correct items, eugenevd! I know the type of tool that your describing. I use one for holdng the chuck onto the spindle of my lathe at work, but it's a 14mm setup. It's a shop-made setup with a 14mm allen wrench cut to around 100mm long, and then brazed into a 14mm impact socket. I really wish I had a a setup like that in 4mm here at home, that was long enough to reach down to that bolt (along with an impact wrench.....). This is my first time doing this job. From the videos at www.trialspartsusa.com, it seemed like it should be fairly straightforward. I think Mr. Snell (the tech in the videos) may have underestimated the "Stupidity Factor" when someone like me attempts these sort of jobs. Like most folks, I tried to work with what I had laying around my barn first. I simply managed to round things off with the variety of weapons I first threw at that bolt. At one point, I cut the 90 deg. corner off one 4mm allen wrench I have. Needing 3 hands and not having them (and evidentally missing some brain cells as well... ), I recruited my son to help me. He put my shortened allen key in that demon possesed bolt & tried to turn it with a wrench while I tapped on it with a hammer. This yielded me nothing, other than the slight relief I got from taking a hammer to something. In hindsight, I probably should've just hit my son with it. I'm sure he's done something he needs that for..... But at 25 yrs. of age, he'd probably take it from me, and use it against me, so I forgot about that one. But I digress..... I'll go to a local tool store & pick up some left hand drills today, and give that a shot next. Hopefully, that will do the trick. Thank you to you guys that have replied. I really, really appreciate your help & ideas here, Fellas!! Jimmie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lineaway Posted January 12, 2013 Report Share Posted January 12, 2013 You never said why you were taking off the clutch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted January 12, 2013 Report Share Posted January 12, 2013 http://www.toolprice.com/category/screwextractors/ These things are great when they work, but beware if they snap!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr neutron Posted January 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2013 (edited) Wow! You guys posted while I was typing, Cursed & Lineaway. Several days ago, I went for a ride on my property. I have a few "obstacles" for practicing double blips & turns, and unweighting & stuff. One such "obstacle" is a rotting maple stump about 18" high. Due mostly to my bad technique, when I tried to double blip over the stump, I "cased" it. Got the case up on the stump, and the back tire still on the ground. The bike's engine died, so I pulled the clutch in, backed the bike off of the stump, & restarted it. After I restarted it, the motor had a new noise, which is what I'm really trying to fix.... FWIW, the noise is a clattering/rattling kind of noise that you can hear at idle. The sound "gets faster" as the revs go up, and slows down as the motor slows. It sounds like it's coming from inside the clutch case somewhere, but that's definitely a guess. I've looked on the ignition side already, thinking the flywheel weight I just installed might somehow be the culprit (Loose bolt, or whatever....). The ignition side seems to be alright. Knowing that Gas Gas kickstart gears, and the idler gear in particular seem to suffer when starting technique isn't perfect, I'm almost hoping my noise is from part of that mechanism. And that's why I need to remove the clutch..... I don't mean this as a "sympathy ploy", or anything like that. I'm having a surgery on my knee in a few days, and won't be able to ride for a few months, most likely. I'd like to try and get this fixed now, so when I get healed up, I can just start my bike & ride again. Plus, I've noticed that the older I get, if I leave stuff laying in pieces in my barn, I tend to forget how they came apart, or rather how they should go back together. And that's a big reason why I appreciate this forum. The knowledge base here speeds up stuff a lot! Cursed, I consider the drill method kind of a "last-ditch" way to do this, for most of the reasons you described. I'd rather not take a chance of getting chips inside motor. I have already rounded off my Torx bit that fit the best; I can grind more material off of that & try it again today. And I just remembered I have one of those old hand held "Impact Driver" tools that you hit with a hammer. It has a spring loaded affair that a socket fits onto on the opposite end that you hit, and rotates a few degrees when struck. This tool has been good for loosening up bolts in the past. I have not used it in years, and forgot I even owned it. That may possibly work before I drill.... In the past, I also have removed bolt heads by drilling down past the bottom of the bolt head, as Lineaway described. This actually works very good if you're careful. The grease should catch and hold the chips, as the shape of drill flutes tends to pull chips towards you. This grease trick actually works really good. Since this bolt has a "pilot hole" already, the drill likely won't walk off location. Normally, there's enough of the bolt remaining above whatever it's screwed into to turn out with Vise-Grip pliers or something like that..... But you guys ran without that bolt, Lineaway? What held the clutch on? I'm not familiar with the ANY Gas Gas clutches, as this is the first one I've ever worked on. I'm assuming there are splines on the shaft my clutch is fit on, and that may even be a tapered affair with splines. I can't figure out what would hold that on w/o a bolt? Jimmie Edited January 12, 2013 by mr neutron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lineaway Posted January 12, 2013 Report Share Posted January 12, 2013 The clutch `will` just stay in place. Once you remove it you will see. Yes it`s splined plus the gears on both sides. I know leaving things out sound strange, but a 5mm hollow bolt to hold a clutch together in the first place is very strange 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laser1 Posted January 12, 2013 Report Share Posted January 12, 2013 The Clutch Slave also holds it in. Alot of folks remove it as Lineaway mention. I keep mine in cause I paid for it.... - dont need to crank it tight or loctite it. It has very little to no load. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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