woody Posted January 29, 2013 Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 Yes, I can fully understand that and no-one of wants to see a fellow enthusiast in any sort of trouble. But as you say, how many people have the time to deal with this legislation. Trials clubs aren't like car clubs that have huge manpower. Some clubs function on 2 or 3 people only. It just seems to me that these regulations were drafted for car or speed trials and that it is the word trials that causes the issue. Certain events gain automatic approval and from the MSA's own criteria, our events seem to fit right into examples b: and c: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted January 29, 2013 Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 Sorry guys but i refer you to my previous posts. It definately seems that the noose is tightening and they are going to bury organisers with paperwork until they suffocate or just give up. How many riders will now be thinking "if plod is going to be there and all over us like a rash is it worth the risk?" ok your bike "may" have been "legal" when it got m.o.t.'d assuming it's over 3 years old but i bet nick nick can find something that will cost you points especially once it's covered in mud or you have just spread some on the road. I think Pete is bending over backwards to comply and good on him for doing so but after reading all this i am so glad i turned down the chance to run a road trial. I cant see it can result in anything but a financial loss to an organising club and a mental breakdown to the poor sod that has the unenviable job of trying to comply with the mountain of paperwork. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gasserguy Posted January 29, 2013 Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 I know that this year it's all a massive learning exercise and a lot of pain but next year the paper work will (should) be the same so then it will just be a copy and paste exercise to change the dates and a few other details!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wri5hty Posted January 29, 2013 Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 Gasserguy I really hope your right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totalshell Posted January 29, 2013 Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 are we agreed then that your local plod hasnt the first clue what he is looking at if he asks you to have a licensing hours extension and in the next breath asks if you intend to use illegal veghicles illegally on the road. where clubs do fall short is failing to ensure insurance coverage of competitors,, not by checking but by getting riders to complete a specific form/ declaration. MANY/MOST riders could not honestly sign such a declaration.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted January 29, 2013 Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 (edited) Just had an e mail from the AMCA stating their point of view on this and after reading the MSA exemption clauses i tend to stand with Pete on this one. Unless road trials become radically different from how we know it, assuming you want to follow the law and not leave yourself open, you will have to get MSA approval. Main stumbling block that i can see, all the others could be circumnavigated, is the fact that all competitors are required to visit the same places i.e. sections and that all competitors must comply with the highway code. The route the competitor takes could be left to them but it would not be good enough just to state the onus is on the competitor to comply with the law and the highway code as in "exhibts good road behaviour and compliance with the highway code." You can have a finish point and time but route markings and or a prescribed route require you to have MSA authourisation. Then finally of course "ALL must have tax, insurance and a valid mot if required and riders observe road traffic law at all times while using the public highway." As i said not good enough anymore to pass the onus onto the riders as in "it's the riders responsibility" etc. Of course this is only if you want to use the MSA exemption get out clause. OK it's took them 44 years to decide to enforce it so we cant say they didnt give us plenty of time to sort our selves out but as i read it they've got us fair and square. As CoC i wouldnt put my house on the line for it because it would be my ar5e that gets bit and you wouldnt see the entrants for dust if they dropped on the organiser. as usual you'd be on your own. No at the end of the day Pete is right. Perhaps it is the death knell of road trials. Well at least we had a good innings eh ? Edited January 29, 2013 by old trials fanatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andat Posted January 29, 2013 Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 The problem with the acu exemption format is its dancing around a grey area, this will only become black and white when someone is in a big pile of the brown stuff. I totally understand why pete is trying to do it legit, I will be doing the same for the Cleveland. If both trials end up getting cancelled then so be it. I got into trials for the fun of it, started helping out because I realised it was required. Sadly with all the extra paper work and responsibility the fun is diminishing, but would still rather do that than possibly end up in court or watching every rider get fined for being part of a illegal event. What I do ask of the ACU is, if this is the way we have to do things in the future GET IT SIMPLIFIED. christ I fit carpets for a living I just want boxes to tick. No one is going to go to prison...apparently the fine for running "an illegal event" is £50.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wri5hty Posted January 29, 2013 Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 (edited) Yes but I believe they can fine each rider Edited January 29, 2013 by wri5hty 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldilocks Posted January 29, 2013 Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 Look people its obviously not easy but theres no need to chuck the towel in just yet. We need to ask some reasonable questions and do a few things to make the bikes more presentable to the police and others. OTF I dont know how old you are but i've got a few years left and dont fancy doing 4 X 10 sections till I croak ! By the way there is an event run in scotland which may have trouble contacting every household but maybe scotland is different, I certainly hope so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted January 29, 2013 Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 Look people its obviously not easy but theres no need to chuck the towel in just yet. We need to ask some reasonable questions and do a few things to make the bikes more presentable to the police and others. OTF I dont know how old you are but i've got a few years left and dont fancy doing 4 X 10 sections till I croak ! By the way there is an event run in scotland which may have trouble contacting every household but maybe scotland is different, I certainly hope so. Well known fact, everyone in Scotland is related, so just one letter needed ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andat Posted January 29, 2013 Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 (edited) Look people its obviously not easy but theres no need to chuck the towel in just yet. We need to ask some reasonable questions and do a few things to make the bikes more presentable to the police and others. OTF I dont know how old you are but i've got a few years left and dont fancy doing 4 X 10 sections till I croak ! By the way there is an event run in scotland which may have trouble contacting every household but maybe scotland is different, I certainly hope so. Its one of the excluded events....bloody good job too, as is the RAC Rally, the Edinburgh Trial, the Exeter Trial and others as listed on Schedule 4 of the Regulations. Edited January 29, 2013 by andat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 I've had an email from John Lightfoot of North Berks MCC who has taken this up with his MP. They are hoping to have an interview with the top man in government who controls MSA in the next few weeks. Will post if/when John lets me know more. In the meantime, it might be worthwhile for others to contact their MPs over this. Strength in numbers and all that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totalshell Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 playing devils advocate... so.. you want to use the road to get 100 off road motorcycles from one side of the village to the other.... why cant you notify the homes adjacent to the roads you ll use its only good manners to inform mrs smith at no34. that those motorbikes passing her front door are part of a legal competition recognised by and authorised by the governing body and the local authourties.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2stroke4stroke Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 Because if you don't notify residents the chances in most situations are that most won't even be aware that the event is on. Tell them and they'll be straight on to the Authorities complaining about stopping the noisy motorcycles they haven't noticed for the last thirty years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_scorpa3 Posted January 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 playing devils advocate... so.. you want to use the road to get 100 off road motorcycles from one side of the village to the other.... why cant you notify the homes adjacent to the roads you ll use its only good manners to inform mrs smith at no34. that those motorbikes passing her front door are part of a legal competition recognised by and authorised by the governing body and the local authourties.. Church bells have been ringing for hundreds of years (and the Colmore is only 102) but that doesn't stop people complaining about the noise. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-20572854 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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