billyt Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 (edited) Lets be practical here. Who pulls a wheelie and then puts the front brake on. Even if they did if the back wheel was stopped then it would be a lack of forward motion. Even when they are hopping from rock to rock (with the front wheel in the air) the back wheel has to turn to do so. Hey Dave. Will there be anywhere to ride in Alberta if/when the new LSR Sask takes effect? Hey Old Trials Fanatic I am from Glasgow Scotland as far from a yank as one could get. Edited March 1, 2013 by billyt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAD1 Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 Must admit my interest in WTC is limited but as an observer I wouldn't be 5 ing anyone on the video (maybe the sumped up demo was a bit long?) All seemed to be making genuine attemps to keep moving. Surely give observers credit for some sense. A momentary feet up stop is neither here or there. So based on the views of an observer - they made an attempt to be no stop : so how would you score that??? how would next observer score that??? = inconsistency. a momentary feet up stop is neither here or there : so its not no stop is it??? = whats the point of having no stop if observers are saying this?? Sorry, this will just lead to mass confusion, more arguements, more delays and so on. EPIC FAIL FIM 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 (edited) Hey Old Trials Fanatic I am from Glasgow Scotland as far from a yank as one could get. Seriously no insult intended. Just saw the usa ref and just dont think the idea of a wheel sensor would work as i regularly lock the front momentarily when descending slippery muddy slots and gullys but dont cease forward motion or dab whilst doing so. Same with the rear wheel locked as a sliding anchour whilst descending but again no cesation to forward motion. Lastly rear wheel still spinning on muddy terrain but bike and rider have come to a halt.Suppose i'm biased and dont see the problem with non stop as it is all i have ever ridden. When the stop hop and bop merchants arrived on the scene is about the same time that i packed up trialing as all that was just something that held no interest to me and i never would aspire to, just no beauty and finesse in it IMHO, so i went off to France and became a ski instructor for the next 20 odd years. Had a bad injury ski racing, broken vertebrae femur shoulder etc, so that all came to an end. Just happened to be chatting to an old mate over a beer and he talked me into going to a Classic trial which just happened to be happening over the other side of his fence. The bug bit again and the rest is history. As you know Classics are all ridden non stop so that is probably why i just dont get all the negativety about the adoption of the non stop rule. From my point of view after watching the FIM video i thought the demo of non stop was far more aspirational and skillfull than the usual hop bop rev the nuts off it and dump the clutch all with a couple of monkeys to catch you or the bike. As i said just no beauty in it for me. So if me mentioning the word Yanks caused you offence i appologise but to most Europeans that's what everybody is over that side of the pond no offence meant. Does make me laugh when you meet some of the yanks that are so full of how Scottish, Irish whatever they think they are but cant seem to pinpoint exactly where Scotland etc is on a map of the world i.e. one that isnt just of north america but includes the other 3/4 of the planet. Edited March 1, 2013 by old trials fanatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ducati996 Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 Seriously no insult intended. Just saw the usa ref and just dont think the idea of a wheel sensor would work as i regularly lock the front momentarily when descending slippery muddy slots and gullys but dont cease forward motion or dab whilst doing so. Same with the rear wheel locked as a sliding anchour whilst descending but again no cesation to forward motion. Lastly rear wheel still spinning on muddy terrain but bike and rider have come to a halt. Suppose i'm biased and dont see the problem with non stop as it is all i have ever ridden. When the stop hop and bop merchants arrived on the scene is about the same time that i packed up trialing as all that was just something that held no interest to me and i never would aspire to, just no beauty and finesse in it IMHO, so i went off to France and became a ski instructor for the next 20 odd years. Had a bad injury ski racing, broken vertebrae femur shoulder etc, so that all came to an end. Just happened to be chatting to an old mate over a beer and he talked me into going to a Classic trial which just happened to be happening over the other side of his fence. The bug bit again and the rest is history. As you know Classics are all ridden non stop so that is probably why i just dont get all the negativety about the adoption of the non stop rule. From my point of view after watching the FIM video i thought the demo of non stop was far more aspirational and skillfull than the usual hop bop rev the nuts off it and dump the clutch all with a couple of monkeys to catch you or the bike. As i said just no beauty in it for me. So if me mentioning the word Yanks caused you offence i appologise but to most Europeans that's what everybody is over that side of the pond no offence meant. Does make me laugh when you meet some of the yanks that are so full of how Scottish, Irish whatever they think they are but cant seem to pinpoint exactly where Scotland etc is on a map of the world i.e. one that isnt just of north america but includes the other 3/4 of the planet. Hold on now OTF it was'nt long ago you accused me of throwing my dummy out when i said we were quitting trials well it seems to me you done exactly the same thing when trials did'nt suit you,talk about the tea pot calling the kettle black. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 Hold on now OTF it was'nt long ago you accused me of throwing my dummy out when i said we were quitting trials well it seems to me you done exactly the same thing when trials did'nt suit you,talk about the tea pot calling the kettle black. Well spotted and a very fair point well made. Cant argue can i. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outlaw dave Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 Hey Billy - Yes lots of Trials happening in Alberta - think all the BS with the Forestry is in the Pincher Creek area. BTW - Love my 2013 Beta 200. - the best yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickl Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 I am hoping the new rules do not turn too many people off of Trials, . We have all seen novice riders momentarily pause in section, or even momentarly pause and dab to regain composure. Right or wrong if they continuosly get a "epic fail-5", vs a "made a few mistakes but continued on-3" it will be very discouraging for new riders. Also if a rider in any class gets a 5 for stopping because it is what the checker percieved, and another does not because the checker didn't, it will definately turn riders off from the sport. The very essence is about control whether or not you ride it no stop if you have the control to stop and balance. Dry trials with traction work well for stoping and hopping, wet slippery trials you need to use more of a non-stop riding technique. Both require control and skill, and you need to be able to not only know how to ride both ways, but also when to ride a particular way in order to excel. Both styles have their place, but mandating one style is not in the best interest of the sport. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borus Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 I am hoping the new rules do not turn too many people off of Trials, . We have all seen novice riders momentarily pause in section, or even momentarly pause and dab to regain composure. Right or wrong if they continuosly get a "epic fail-5", vs a "made a few mistakes but continued on-3" it will be very discouraging for new riders. Also if a rider in any class gets a 5 for stopping because it is what the checker percieved, and another does not because the checker didn't, it will definately turn riders off from the sport. The very essence is about control whether or not you ride it no stop if you have the control to stop and balance. Dry trials with traction work well for stoping and hopping, wet slippery trials you need to use more of a non-stop riding technique. Both require control and skill, and you need to be able to not only know how to ride both ways, but also when to ride a particular way in order to excel. Both styles have their place, but mandating one style is not in the best interest of the sport. The above captures it for me, great post micki, to add, we need to keep the scoring as simple as possible, in Canada much of our scoring is partner checking or variations of that as observers are hard to come by, the highest skilled riders will always rise to the top. Funny how this video is actual proof that scoring non-stop is going to be very difficult. For me personally, I am always working on all types of riding from hop and bop to smooth non-stop riding. cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 No stop scoring is simple compared to the off side rule, whatever that is. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geeman Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 I have watched the FIM video several times and also some old world rounds ( 1980’s) back in the day riders stopped & that was ok unless you put your foot down, then unless you moved it was a 5 . The latest rules as they are shown will be very subjective and without a video replay (like other sports) you will be at the mercy of the checker . No matter what the checker does he or she will be called out by the riders who get an unfavorable call . I would not want to be a checker , . Personally I would hate to see the championship being decided by a Questionable call at some event !!!! I guess time will tell if it can be made to work . I would made a suggestion that a different score could be used . 0 ,1, 2, 3, would be the same , a stop as described in the video would be a 5 with a warning sound , and a complete failure would be a 10 ( or perhaps some other number combinations could work) the point would be to reward movement and also using one smart stop if it prevented complete failure .( 10 points) I think it has merit just something else to think about . Gbee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyl Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 The video looks like it aims to shows how modern stop technigues can still be used wih some amendment for no stop. It does not show the other 99% of the section which can be probably be ridden better clean no stop without messing about. If somebody had done the same video a few years ago showing how you could no longer go backwards or side ways when stopped but just balance or maintain forward motion ( which I think are rules up to now) then there would of been much argument about how can you tell if the rider has just stopped and balanced or gone backwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timp Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 If observing is as strict as in the video then no-stop will fail. I would think less than 10% of SSDT observers would give 5s for stopping in similar circumstances and the rest would be a fair bit more leniant and thats with a lot easier sections than world rounds will be. I really think we should use "stop for a 1". It worked for years without any great problems. It's not perfect but it is a good compromise. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 Well spotted and a very fair point well made. Cant argue can i. Those "mellow" pills are working. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyl Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 If observing is as strict as in the video then no-stop will fail. I would think less than 10% of SSDT observers would give 5s for stopping in similar circumstances and the rest would be a fair bit more leniant and thats with a lot easier sections than world rounds will be. I really think we should use "stop for a 1". It worked for years without any great problems. It's not perfect but it is a good compromise. Don't think it really worked - just meant it wasn't a five or clean desicion. In reality most observers allowed a pause without giving the 1 mark penalty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timp Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 It worked well round here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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