sideways_into_3rd Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 (edited) Hello ! I just purchased a brand new 2002 280 txt pro .. it had just been sitting in it's box for 12 years believe it or not!! Changed the oil and the coolant as a precaution and took it for a ride.. had the coolant boil over. Steam and liquid coolant shooting out of the vent hose. pulled over and turned off the motor. The fan was definitely running at this point! The upper rad hose was hot, the lower rad hoses were cool. To change the coolant I unscrewed the brass drain plug at the bottom .. not much coolant came out, probably 250-300 ml.. topped it up with 50/50 dexron mix. Put the plug in, hand snugged it, made sure the rubber washer was in place. Didn't really bleed the system in any way, as I don't see any bleed nipples.. don't think you'd need to bleed it as the rad is the highest point in the system so air would naturally escape. So, what did I do wrong ? Thank you ! ps, noticed my oil is a little milky as well.. probably had coolant push through the seal when it overheated, or could this be a sign of a bad water pump ? The bike is brand new, so I would hope not ! Edited March 5, 2013 by sideways_into_3rd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zerorev3rev4 Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 it does sound like the pump isnt turning or theres a blockage in the system or poss head seals perished causing pressure biuld up ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sting32 Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 (edited) No idea if this could be "THE" catastrophic cause, but when you removed the brass plug, you surely didnt lose that tiny shim in there, that goes on the shaft... sounds to me like you have a problem, 1st thing to check probably is that the waterpump can and will function properly, and all that, you will need to drain again, lay bike on its side, remove the pump from case and hoses..might have to flush with air and water if you lost that little shim, it could be caught somewhere in the cooling jacket, or could lodge I guess and ruin the impeller on the pump, it is only plastic. disassemble the pump and inspect. You will ruin the seal most likely, so order a W-P seal kit, it comes with new hard shaft, impeller and seal, and you might need to get that little shim seperately... before doing too much, goto youtube hunt for user "gasgasinfo," find the water-pump movie. (ok Ill post link to that user http://www.youtube.com/user/gasgasinfo) OK harder to find, so here is the WP movie for pro... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEqQvL23bgs Dont give up, they re-use footage everywhere, so he ties waterpump up as if to do something else, next scene is working on pump... FWIW, to remove the seal, his way is goofy. I leave shaft and everything together, stick a punch on the shaft from outer side, and tap with hammer pushing everything and seal out of housing. Be carefull, if you hit hard and chip housing anywhere, or bugger the threads on the drain/busing area, you will be buying a housing. FWIW there is a thermostat on that top hose, (where you said it is hot) just above that arrow, but unlike cars, it doesn't block any circulation, all it does is house a thermo switch touching the water, that activates the fan when it reaches temps, like 170-180 degrees (F) I think it is. Something is blocked or the blades on the pump "impeller" are a problem, IMHO. and of course overheated now, you might have O-Ring issues in the head, which is instead of a "Head Gasket" but if you noticed overheat condition, quick enough, maybe not. Maybe the old anitfreeze turned to crystals? I had a 99 Chevy blazer that the 'new-fangled' coolant did this, after about 3 years or more... filled the radiator with plugs, luckily back flushing worked for me... could have been expensive... Edited March 5, 2013 by sting32 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sideways_into_3rd Posted March 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 Thanks for the replies and the video I figured there must be a circulation issue, wasn't sure if the thermostat is a valve or just to operate the fan.. Going to take the water pump apart later today and have a look inside.. chances are I probably misplaced the copper washer in the pump when I drained it .. I saw the rubber seal thing and thought that was the one I needed to save.. whoops ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sideways_into_3rd Posted March 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 Well, I took the water pump and bottom hoses off.. The pump looks good, the impellers are fine, it spins on the motor.. the lines are not clogged, the rad is not clogged .. tomorrow I will test running a garden hose in the motor to make sure nothing is clogged in there I was told that it could have been an air bubble causing the pump to cavitate ... i'll refill it and massage the hoses to make sure there's no bubbles etc... other than that I'm at wits end !! hope it works ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sting32 Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 Many people's first time (on pro waterpumps) manage to put seal in backwards, just FYI. Also not sure how you got the seal out without harm, and make DAMMED sure, that the little shaft has absolutely no groves worn in it, if grooved, replace shaft. NEW batches from Gas Gas I was told finally got the shaft's hardened finally done right, so you might not groove a shaft for a while, however how old the stock on shelf of parts guy, could be an issue still? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sideways_into_3rd Posted March 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2013 I didnt actually take the water pump apart, just took it off and looked in it to see if the impeller was in good shape .. from what I could see 4 impeller tabs were there and not damaged... As mentioned before, this bike is brand new and just came out of the box. Which means it has been sitting for 12 years. There is some gunk in the radiator but not enough to disrupt the flow. I plugged in a garden hose to the engine coolant intake jacket and it feely flowed out of the rad, I then put the water pump in and water would flow through that as well. So I've determined there is no blockage anywhere I filled it up, ran it for a while and same thing .. bottom 2 hoses were not getting warm at all, even after the fan kicked in and the top hose was hot. Let it cool down, opened the rad cap and fired it up again .. water level was at the top, then I noticed I'm not seeing any flow of water back into the rad .. shot this little video.. was expecting to see water flowing back in anyway . .I guess I need to take my brand new water pump apart .. kind of frustrated at this point but what the heck http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTt3LOBDpm8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copemech Posted March 8, 2013 Report Share Posted March 8, 2013 I didnt actually take the water pump apart, just took it off and looked in it to see if the impeller was in good shape .. from what I could see 4 impeller tabs were there and not damaged... As mentioned before, this bike is brand new and just came out of the box. Which means it has been sitting for 12 years. There is some gunk in the radiator but not enough to disrupt the flow. I plugged in a garden hose to the engine coolant intake jacket and it feely flowed out of the rad, I then put the water pump in and water would flow through that as well. So I've determined there is no blockage anywhere I filled it up, ran it for a while and same thing .. bottom 2 hoses were not getting warm at all, even after the fan kicked in and the top hose was hot. Let it cool down, opened the rad cap and fired it up again .. water level was at the top, then I noticed I'm not seeing any flow of water back into the rad .. shot this little video.. was expecting to see water flowing back in anyway . .I guess I need to take my brand new water pump apart .. kind of frustrated at this point but what the heck http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTt3LOBDpm8 That crap in there does not look good! Sounds like the impeller drive is slipping and the pump is not pumping Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sideways_into_3rd Posted March 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2013 That crap in there does not look good! Sounds like the impeller drive is slipping and the pump is not pumping I agree the crap doesn't look good .. maybe i'll get some "rad flush" and run it through there to clean that stuff up However, I know the impeller is turning.. I had the brass drain plug out and kicked the bike over and saw it turn with the engine. can the shaft slip inside the impeller ? I only looked at the shaft .. maybe i'll take the brass plug out and fire up the bike (let out all the water) and see if the impeller is actually spinning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sting32 Posted March 8, 2013 Report Share Posted March 8, 2013 Impeller is plastic. IS threaded BTW it will be "backwards thread" onto that shaft. Yes, it could be stripped , but I dont know. IMHO you know how easy it is to strip any screw or bolt that is RUN into plastic? Main thing is, flush the crap out of there, these bikes are built with the intentions of HIPAA, aka "Just Enough to do its job" this keeps the bikes light. that much crud just might disturb the ability to "flow" and such the water just turns around the pump? the design of that bike, was introduced that exact year you have. It save at least 10 or 12 pounds over the previous engine used. So you can imagine, EVERYTHING about it was new. That gunk, Looks like staled up (new style) Antifreeze. just like I had in a blazer, even though it was daily driven, it crystalized... I have a tractor that is older with old style antifreeze from probably the 80's in it, the old stuff doesn't do that, had some gas in it too, smelled and looked better than the gas delivered just 4 short months ago, fwiw. but stuff we buy nowdays will. they say change that every few years in our cars, never used to, but do now, even if only because the plastic radiator breaks, or waterpump fails, lol. laughingly I will say, usually the "pro" by most anyone's accounts, has been taken apart a few times by it's first let alone it's second birthday, so that fluids are changed, even if owner didn't by choice... stored in a box in a hot warehouse? hmmm... Taking that bike out of the crate yourself, you probably should go thrugh and grease (adding grease) to all the bearings. Not sure, in 02 they might have done better, but newer bikes they dont put much grease on anything. Usually a good dealer does that when they unbox though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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