nigel dabster Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 just to remind us "In view of the current extremely difficult situation regarding participation in Trial events that is also leading to the free fall of the Trial motorcycle market, the FIM together with the Trial Manufacturers (Montesa-Honda, Gas Gas, Beta, Sherco & Ossa) has decided to take measures in order to find ways to revitalise this discipline. The first change concerns the sporting regulations of the FIM Trial World Championships that, from 2013, will be “non-stop”. All categories of the discipline (World Pro, Open International, Junior, 125cc, Women & Trial des Nations) will now apply more dynamic regulations. With the aim of making Trial more accessible, reducing the level of the sections, creating more dynamism, reducing the costs and increasing practice and participation, additional measures will be taken in the coming months." So as stated by the FIM what are the measures they are taking to reduce costs, and increase participation and making the wtc more accesible. Its only a few weeks to the start of wtc season but NOTHING!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 Perhaps they are so taken aback by the ferocity of the detractors that they are having second thoughts about introducing even more unpopular measures ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timp Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 I was hoping No-stop would actually be "stop for a one" but no. They have brought out that video though which shows just how difficult it will be to observe under the new rules. Its like they are pressing the self destruct button on world trials. I don't see where they are going with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan williams Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 Here's how you cure a bad rule. Enforce it exactly as written. Once the fives start piling up for momentary stops the yelling will begin. Then the instructions to not take the rule so literally. But keep enforcing it as written and it will be withdrawn. Or nobody volunteer to check. That'll also cure the situation. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted March 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 As the uem are not yet no stop its quite probable at the moment that stop allowed on a saturday for the european and then sunday would be no-stop, all with the same club same sections same venue? Its hardley joined up thinking to reduce costs (how) increase participation (how) more dynamic (HOW) is it? Or am I missing something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 As a joe average club rider its the momentary feet up stop 5s that are really bugging me, the whole issue has put observers on the spot, some of them are less willing to offer their services ,some are even withdrawing. This alone, cant be good for the sport. At our level things seemed to be ticking along fine ,so personally I find the whole thing quite a pain. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crashmonkey Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 Its hardley joined up thinking to reduce costs (how) increase participation (how) more dynamic (HOW) is it? Or am I missing something? I believe their thinking is this : no stop = easier sections ... more people people think "hey I can have a whirl at this trials lark now" ........ the manufacturers sell more bikes ... more bike sales (and we're talking volume here not just a few more) will drastically reduce the cost of bikes due to them being sold in higher volumes making production cheaper and passing that along to the customer ... cuckoo We've only been riding trials just over a year and I can tell you for fact the majority of kids and parents are beginning to dislike it for with a vengence!!! Kids are rushing through sections paranoid about getting 5'd for stopping, and indeed having more accidents in their desperate attempt to keep moving ... its total crap imho and a real turn of from the sport. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crashmonkey Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 Just to add to the above many of the no stop trials we have now ridden (youth classes at club level) have been set out just as they were before only now you're told you can't stop ... fail at the first hurdle. Certainly not having a pop at ANYONE that gives up their time to run trials and set out etc .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 I take on board all these comments and i must admit i feel i might have to revise my opinion. I used to ride trials back in the hayday from 1967 to 1989 when we regularly had 100 entries at local club events then i packed up because all the trick cycling and general bu66ering about was coming in which just held no interest for me and i was finding the sections no longer enjoyable just no grace and beauty in it anymore. Started back again in 2006 as i happened on a Classic trial for P65 and Twinshocks and thought YES this is it this is proper trials so been involved in that ever since riding both P65 and T/S. As you know Classic events are all non stop and i have no interest in just making up the numbers and bailing out some modern club who are laying on an event totally unsuitable for P65 & T/S just so the local wunderkind can show off. Therefore i thought it would be a posative step to revert to proper rules but it's quite obvious that considerable amount of people for whatever reason arent willing to change prefering to stick with the pogoing that is such a turn off for the rest of the trialing fraternity, witness the sucess of Classic clubs and events with sensible sections and a general good atmosphere no dads shouting the odds bad attitude massive egos etc, to the extent that we are getting more and more on modern bikes wanting to come and ride our Classic trials. Well as usual i was wrong. I think it could be made to work but the will just doesnt seem to be there. Either way i suppose it doesnt effect me because i have no intention of ever riding at an event where stop allowed would be the norm but if the proposal is generally ruffleing so many peoples feathers then just run events as stop allowed. Nobody to my knowledge has said you HAVE to run non stop this year, at club level anyway, have they? Doesnt matter a jot cos the likelihood of anybody ever competing at WTC level is nil so just do what you want and at least enjoy it. Still dont get why it can work at Classic trials but according to the majourity of contributors on here wont work elsewhere. Whatever 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickwren Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 Just to clarify Nigel Dabster's comment. UEM is now FIM Europe and the first thing that happened after this change was that the FIM told FIM Europe what they had to do , namely to go no stop and fall into line so that's what happened. THis is what happens when decisions are taken for political rather than sporting reasons. It is great to see that many experts on this forum are now realising what this change actually means and after spending most of last year slagging off the ACU for doing the same thing some of you are actually realising what we were forced to do. I have written loads about my opinion on this matter but it demonstrates how poor the no stop rules are when their supporters have to manipulate things and bully people into doing it their way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ducati996 Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 I believe their thinking is this : no stop = easier sections ... more people people think "hey I can have a whirl at this trials lark now" ........ the manufacturers sell more bikes ... more bike sales (and we're talking volume here not just a few more) will drastically reduce the cost of bikes due to them being sold in higher volumes making production cheaper and passing that along to the customer ... cuckoo We've only been riding trials just over a year and I can tell you for fact the majority of kids and parents are beginning to dislike it for with a vengence!!! Kids are rushing through sections paranoid about getting 5'd for stopping, and indeed having more accidents in their desperate attempt to keep moving ... its total crap imho and a real turn of from the sport. Trouble is nobody cares about the kids......like it or not they are the future of trials,its not rocket science to work that one out & yea anybody who thinks that no stop trials will get people rushing to the dealers to buy there cheaper bikes is very much mistaken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickwren Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 (edited) Have to reply to Gas Gas 249uk. You ask why not try it see if it works. We tried it in the UK and it didn't. You quote from the FIM letter stating that the FIM together with the industry have introduced this rule, actually it was the FIM Management who caved in to the demands of the manufacturers and overruled the Trials Commission who were democratically elected to run the sport. There is a lot said about increasing bike sales etc. There is also a lot said about how wonderful the SSDT, Scott, Lakes 2 Day etc etc are because they are no stop, actually they are wonderful because the organisers have helped to put the fun back into the sport but the people who ride in these events are the market the importers and manufacturers should be concentrating on. Just to give a quick example of why we should be very wary of what the industry want at the beginning of 2012 the FIM introduced a rule stating that all refuelling must be done in the paddock on safety grounds, the manufacturers were up in arms claiming they could not produce a tank big enough to travel a full lap without fuelling on the course. Now they are demanding that courses should be a minimum of roughly twice what they are now so that thousands of bikes can travel round the course, they must have found a shed full of bigger tanks in a shed somewhere, point being the industry always have an angle while the FIM Commission and ACU T&E Committee are made up of people with no aims other than to promote the sport. Edited March 13, 2013 by mickwren Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 In the USA we tried No-Stop on modern bikes and it did not work, people hated it. Kids are the future of the sport! The next Generation likes the stop and hop that trials has progressed to. And let's face it Trials is about control of the motorcycle whether you are stopped or moving the key is control. (another plug for stop and balance = 0 stop and foot down = 5, make them control the bike) Why do classic twin shock no stop trials have such high participation? Easy answer, there are more riders of the older generation that have the available funds to participate in those events, and those are the events they like and have ridden for years. I don't know about across the pond but here you just don't see hardly any kids on "classic" twinshock bikes. yes there are a few that ride the TY80 but those are getting even fewer. Price of TY80 and a modern kids bikes are getting pretty close to each other, so may as well buy the modern version because the kids are going to want a modern bike when they move up a couple classes anyways. Why do we at club level spew forth our opinions? (well with da interwebs it's easy for us) Because those rules will trickle down to what we ride, the line of logic used is that we need to "prepare" our future riders for the top level of the sport. If we just "get behind the new rules and give it a try" then the FIM will figure it was a success and continue to do it, it will be even harder to get the rules changed later if it appears that we support it from the begining. If we do not give our opinions and feedback then the FIM will never know what we their "customers" think. I agree that we need to promote the fun of the sport, This is where Team WGASA, Tubby Trials Team, Team Escargot and the like come into play. Maybe the manufacturers should promote the club level of the sport. Bear with me on this. Manufacturers can continue to field a rider or two in the WTC, it may take a couple years for the manufacturers to see a return on this new "sponsorship" model to better fund the WTC team. Here is my idea, Take goofballs like Team WGASA, Tubby Trials Team, Team Escargot, etc.. and provide free OEM replacement parts for our current bikes (we don't need titanium and total trick bits, you want that, buy it yourself), fuel to travel to the national level events and entry fees to the events. I know I would be Happy with that. In return we will plaster our bikes with sponsors stickers, maybe even a sticker or two on our transport vehicle, we will answer questions and promote the sport to the best of our ability. Any riding videos we make will have our sponsors displayed. We will show the general rider how much fun you can have in this sport. Because the general rider is who we want to get into the sport and grow participation. And the main reason to do it is because it is fun. Just this goofball's opinion 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickwren Posted March 14, 2013 Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 gasgas249uk I have to be a little bit careful what I say because I have to work with these people but I firmly believe that there is an element amongst the pro no stop briade who have campaigned for this for so long they have almost forgotten themselves why they want it but like spoilt children they just DO. I firmly believe this is the result of one man's obsession. Regardless of wheteher we get it right or wrong the ACU and FIM have always been democratic and worked on a simple majority rule basis and as a long standing member I have on many occasions had to go along with this, example being the Lakes 2 Day running under no stop as I was the only one in the club who didn't want it, but the people within the industry are their own bosses and don't see why they can't do what they want, Enough said for now 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telecat Posted March 14, 2013 Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 Can't blame you for wanting to keep your head down Mick. The instant anybody defends "Stop" a rabid mob descend to try and tear you to pieces. Nobody is trying to take MX back to "Scrambling" around a muddy field because they know nobody will watch it anymore. Taking the spectacular out of a sport merely leaves it looking old and worn. Pandering to the "older" riders will leave Trials to die because we will not have any young riders. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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