None Stop! The Start Of The End! Whats It Solved? Rubbish.

[duggan]

The No stop rules will always split opinions, after seeing the video clips and also the FIM observing tutorial video it is clear that at this level of competition it clearly doesn't work.

Stop allowed makes it easy to decide who loses marks and who doesn't.

I have also seen the same problems with the new rules at club level, leaving both riders and observers feeling annoyed and confused.

Bikes have moved forward, riders skills have moved forward, so why used rules which have been left behind and cause problems for everyone involved.

Balance is a major part of trials which we should encourage, if its all about getting the riders through the sections quicker, they should just shorten the time limit.

In my opinion the No stop rule shouldn't be discarded, but they should only be only used for pre 65 and twin shock trials.

[zippy]

The unfortunate by product of what happens at the WTC level is the rule changes filter down to the events we ride on Sunday.

Example in USA:

FIM goes No-Stop

NATC wants to stay in line with FIM and also goes No-Stop

"Local" organizations want their riders to be prepared to ride the national series, so they also adopt No-Stop to stay in line with NATC.

I don't agree with this but this is the way it seems to work.

The problem is small percentage of "Local" riders (let's say 10%) will actually ride the NATC nationals.

and a small percentage of those riders will ride the WTC (for USA that's like 1 or 2 riders......ever)

So basically Trials organizations are catering their rules to only a few of the competitors and not the majority of the riders, I think that may be very instrumental in why trials is having problems.

Just my Opinions

[borus]

Balance is a major part of trials which we should encourage,

When I train new riders, mostly from enduro background, one of the main skills they want to learn is how to balance and hop, its just one of the unique techniques that interests riders, I agree with an earlier comment, use the indoor rules for the outdoor, lets perfect our back up, and what ever else we can think of to make trials even more unique.

[twinshocked]

When I train new riders, mostly from enduro background, one of the main skills they want to learn is how to balance and hop, its just one of the unique techniques that interests riders, I agree with an earlier comment, use the indoor rules for the outdoor, lets perfect our back up, and what ever else we can think of to make trials even more unique.

Yup, that's the problem right there.. I've seen it alot. New riders get suckered in by stop n hop. Try to use it then get frustrated and fail. They are confused by what they need to learn. Basics first then advanced stuff.

I've had to de-program several new riders. Show them the basics and the road to fun.

[nigel dabster]

Absolutely teach them no stop to start with but mark them stop allowed

[borus]

to clarify, they want to eventually learn the unique skills of trials, mostly because the of the success of Graham Jarvis etc, but, they are certainly taught all the very basic skills to start with so they do have a good base. Now, the bicycle trial guys that cross over will have no use for non-stop. These guys are a natural for trials. Please don't ignore these guys. They are brilliant on their bicycles and we want them to continue to cross over.

I guess my point is trials has a known unique place in the motorcycle world and more and more riders are wanting to learn these special skills, why, tell me why is the FIM wanting turn the clock back.

What better highlight is to watch Toni Bou jump backward off off a ten foot wall to maneuver his way through an indoor section. The kids and riders of today are looking for everything that the X games type sports brings. let these world riders show off all their talents by not only letting them stop, but let them use every skill they have to complete a section.

make it very simple for an observer to score.

[bisby]

Borus, These are 3 lap trials, the rider should only have 3 goes at each section, if he / she fails that is there loss or mistake they should not get another attempt even if they are good enough to hold there balance.

Having said that i am in ore of there skill. Steve.

[borus]

great, I am aware of the format, but if you are in awe of their skill why not allow these riders to use every skill they have. It's only a mistake if it's in the rules. simplify the rules and let these riders show their stuff.

Anyway, I'm not in favour of nonstop and I see using the indoor rules basically. I know someone else posted this thought and I'm in that corner for sure. I would say that if the FIM goes too far they will see a professional promoter come in and start another series. Marketed and promoted right trials can be no different than the X-Games or any other Extreme sport that is doing very well these days. Why are they doing well, exciting and don't have old codgers lurking around saying we need to go back to the old days. We need to look to the future.

[perce]

to clarify, they want to eventually learn the unique skills of trials, mostly because the of the success of Graham Jarvis

Graham is probably one of the best no stop riders there has been, his ability to accurately pick / hit a line whilst on the move is exceptional.

[kramit]

Yup, that's the problem right there.. I've seen it alot. New riders get suckered in by stop n hop. Try to use it then get frustrated and fail. They are confused by what they need to learn. Basics first then advanced stuff.

I've had to de-program several new riders. Show them the basics and the road to fun.

Totally agree......lower class riders moving through sections using stop and hop.."trick riding" failing miserably and after encouraging them to try riding no stop, their ride is more often than not better...lower score.

Years ago, after practicing a section numerous times, we used to temporally raise our clutch levers to an unusable position and retry the section.

Very enlightening results and sometimes a good laugh.

Edited May 1, 2013 by kramit

[twinshocked]

great, I am aware of the format, but if you are in awe of their skill why not allow these riders to use every skill they have. It's only a mistake if it's in the rules. simplify the rules and let these riders show their stuff.

Anyway, I'm not in favour of nonstop and I see using the indoor rules basically. I know someone else posted this thought and I'm in that corner for sure. I would say that if the FIM goes too far they will see a professional promoter come in and start another series. Marketed and promoted right trials can be no different than the X-Games or any other Extreme sport that is doing very well these days. Why are they doing well, exciting and don't have old codgers lurking around saying we need to go back to the old days. We need to look to the future.

Not trying to butt heads but what's the point of an Outdoor series with Indoor rules. Just seems redundant.

There already is a professional promoter marketing a series with Indoor rules and riding techniques, its called X Trial. It's on TV and is run in stadiums in front of paying crowds----and only a handful of riders are good enough to ride the sections.

Agreed X Trial needs to get into X Games to reach the masses.

[woody]

And from what little I've seen of it on TV, there are a good number of empty seats? Too many years of watching the same riders doing the same thing over and over on the same sections?

There seems little variation and little scope for it

[funtrials]

A third one would be from the riders. Did they like it or hate it??

The GasGas factory report on TC about the Japanese round said that all the riders hate the new rule.....I doubt that's 100% true, but I bet it's very close to being accurate.

[funtrials]

Graham is probably one of the best no stop riders there has been, his ability to accurately pick / hit a line whilst on the move is exceptional.

Slippery sections....slippery sections are what Jarvis EXCELLED at, relative to his results on dry grippy stuff, more than any world rider I've ever seen. Jarvis won 3 of 6 World rounds at one point when Dougie was ranked #1. Some people sell their soul to the Devil to get what they want, but I think Jarvis maybe sold his soul to the Rain God to get what he wanted. :-)

Edited May 4, 2013 by nigel dabster
spelling

[nigel dabster]

he didnt sell anything to the knee god, which was a shame as the year he hurt it was going to be his best.