0007 Posted May 28, 2013 Report Share Posted May 28, 2013 That's a good description of starting technique I am confused by this bit though "Once you get the kick starter all the way down it will not and can not kick back even if the engine is running." The kick starter gear is always engaged with the gear on the clutch, it's always spins with the clutch basket It doesn't know what part of the stroke the kick starter is at And the kick lever only engages the starter gear with the ratchet mechanism Think of It this way, if you took the kick stopper and kick return spring off you could put an electric motor on the shaft, there is no top and bottom If the motor always spins the right direction it cannot ever kick back the lever as it just spins the ratchet mech If the motor fires and pushes the crank backward it will always kick back the lever no matter where it was as long as there was a load on the lever at the time, they must have an anti rotational coil in the mag to keep the engine from running in reverse, the old TYs would do it sometimes Anyway LOL I still think they all have the tendency to kick a bit, maybe some are worse than others, maybe new tight motors have more tendency than bikes with lots of hours 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyt Posted May 28, 2013 Report Share Posted May 28, 2013 (edited) 0007 I say black you say white. The goal her is to help Clarky, not to try and prove me wrong for the sake of doing so. You have your experiences I have mine. I spent all weekend (Saturday & Sunday) riding and getting to know how to start my new 300cc Beta. The technique I stated works for me and I will stand by what I said. Edited May 29, 2013 by billyt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shyted Posted May 28, 2013 Report Share Posted May 28, 2013 Clarky, if you havn't already bought anything . STOP ! You have a 2012 bike . The technology is simple if you stop and think . Your conclusion so far maybe correct but K.I.S.S ! A motto i stand by . If you first start by simply taking down brief notes on the symptoms , call your nearest authorised BETA dealer ,discuss the problem , if you get an "Oh yes, weve seen quite a few like that now and it's definatly such and such ,we can send you details by email " or just tell you on the phone. If your still in the dark Consult the internet manual to do the STATIC timing . Or ask the question . Go from there ,but write what you do down so you don't get lost . All costs you nothing . Best regards Ted . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pindie Posted May 28, 2013 Report Share Posted May 28, 2013 You have a big piston which needs a good push to get it to go over tdc. Find tdc and then kick it over from just after tdc. This way the piston will be travelling at good speed by the time it comes back up and it won't fire back. Don't go drilling anything at all. If it needed it they would have done it from new as part of the plate. It sounds technique to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morton Posted May 28, 2013 Report Share Posted May 28, 2013 The Scottish prep guide from lampkins that was on the main news page mentions starting a couple of times.... ENGINE 2T IMPORTANT. STARTING EVO 290/300. The Evo 290/300 has high compression. When you start the bike make sure you give it a good kick. Sometimes when you give the bike a soft (half kick) it can kick back and break a tooth of the kickstart gear. If you start the bike correctly you will not have any problems. ......and... STARTING 2T. 9 times out of 10 an Evo 2T starts best with choke and no throttle. If this does not work try no choke and full throttle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyt Posted May 29, 2013 Report Share Posted May 29, 2013 (edited) Clarky Try this to help you get the technique down. Disconnect the spark plug wire. Now push the bike over practicing good swift hard full stroke foot pumps or rather pushes (do not turn the throttle when doing so as it will flood the engine) . You can do this without fear of it kicking back on you and allowing you to develop your technique. Once you feel you are getting good hard full stroke pushes with full travel then re-connect spark plug wire. For clarity, calling it a "Kick starter" or telling you give it hard fast kickstarts is a bad misnomer as you really do not want to kick it as this will surely cause it to back fire. Not to be anal about the word but we really should be saying "push it down with your foot". When you kick it down with your foot energy alone it will stop once you meet resistance, where as a foot placed firmly on a partly loaded kick starter and a bent leg loaded and then pushed down fast, hard and full stroke is really what we are after. DO NOT PUSH DOWN WITH YOUR FOOT/LEG UNTILL IT IS IN FULL CONTACT WITH A LOADED KICK STARTER. YOUR FOOT AND LEG SHOULD BE FULLY LOADED AND PRIMED TO STRIKE NOT TRAVELING THOUGH THE AIR ON A HARD DOWNWARDS PATH AND THEN MEETING UP WITH A KICK STARTER LEVER. Load the kick starter by pushing it down gently with your foot, get it just past TDC, and then push hard, and fast, and all the way down. Cheers BillyT Edited May 29, 2013 by billyt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0007 Posted May 29, 2013 Report Share Posted May 29, 2013 0007 I say black you say white. The goal her is to help Clarky, not to try and prove me wrong for the sake of doing so. You have your experiences I have mine. I spent all weekend (Saturday & Sunday) riding and getting to know how to start my new 300cc Beta. The technique I stated works for me and I will stand by what I said. Sorry, Not trying to offend, and it's not for the sake of proving anyone wrong I have spent many years explaining how technical stuff works, you should see me with a Yamaha EFI system LOL Cheers 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pindie Posted May 29, 2013 Report Share Posted May 29, 2013 You're bang on BillyT. All kick starts need a good push not a kick. Only crossers seem to actually be kick start in reality. Four strokes also like a good long push with the leg as well and like you say it can't kick back if a full push has been given. One thing that probably is not helping the thread starter is they know have "the fear" and are not actually using a nice technique - very common when you see people with big kick start four strokes. They get a kick back from using a tired leg then end up being more timid and it makes the problem worse. Once you can do the long push down you can adjust the speed of the push so that it turns the motor over just right and boom! It will fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzralphy Posted May 29, 2013 Report Share Posted May 29, 2013 Found this photo and it shows that it can be adjusted is that right???? is this what you mean nzralphy & charlie chitlins I'm no mechanic but took to a good mechanic the other day and after looking he said he would have to drill out the holes to adjust the timing???? He seems to think it is the CDI that is to fault. I don't know what to think now??? lol Yes that is it. The slots allow the ignition pickup to move. Move it lots try 4-5mm to see if the problem goes away. If it does go back a bit to get what you are happy with. Phoowey to all the OMG whats wrong.....Just try it mate you won't wreck anything. Oh and use an impact driver to loosen the screws 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outlaw dave Posted May 29, 2013 Report Share Posted May 29, 2013 It's all technique - try starting with the bike on a bike stand so that you have your right foot on the right footpeg, while kicking with your left - this gets your body up higher and makes it easier - you can also lean against your van or a tree etc to do the same thing - tip ! turn your bars slightly to the right, so that if the bike does kick back, it doesn't drive your knee into the handlebar. - I bet a few on this forum have had that happen, especially the older members - As Billy T says, You canna be timid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyt Posted May 29, 2013 Report Share Posted May 29, 2013 Quote: "I have spent many years explaining how technical stuff works" As most of us have on this forum. In fact there are many guys on here who do it rather well and have done so for many, many years! Some of us even do it for a living! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyt Posted May 29, 2013 Report Share Posted May 29, 2013 It's all technique - try starting with the bike on a bike stand so that you have your right foot on the right footpeg, while kicking with your left - this gets your body up higher and makes it easier - you can also lean against your van or a tree etc to do the same thing - tip ! turn your bars slightly to the right, so that if the bike does kick back, it doesn't drive your knee into the handlebar. - I bet a few on this forum have had that happen, especially the older members - As Billy T says, You canna be timid. I agree Dave............ All technique............... One other thing that caught my attention tonight when I fired up my 300cc Beta. The Beta is a left hand start I am right handed so right footed. This makes my left foot/leg the weaker foot/leg (in theory) so I am not as adapted / strong with my left foot/leg and less aggressive as I would be if it where right hand start. I think this may be the case with other right handed Beta riders trying to start a big bore 300cc with their left foot/leg ?????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0007 Posted May 30, 2013 Report Share Posted May 30, 2013 Quote: "I have spent many years explaining how technical stuff works" As most of us have on this forum. In fact there are many guys on here who do it rather well and have done so for many, many years! Some of us even do it for a living! Billy, never tried to pick a fight If I said pistons spin round and round one would expect another to explain that they go up and down Yes some of us do it for a living, motorcycle mechanical diagnosis and technical training is what I have done for 28 of the 33 years I have worked in the industry Cheers to you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyt Posted May 30, 2013 Report Share Posted May 30, 2013 (edited) "If I said pistons spin round and round one would expect another to explain that they go up and down" What if they did both? I think you will find there are lots of well qualified technical people on this site who teach, engineer, or design things. Many are in the industry or in automotive and have a solid grasp of technical concepts/issues. All sorts of knowledge has been shared by these guys through the years, helping each other when we can. I look forward to you being part of that group. I am just an old fart on this site that has hung around since Andy was a wee a bairn in his nappy Edited May 30, 2013 by billyt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted May 30, 2013 Report Share Posted May 30, 2013 " I am just an old fart on this site that has hung around since Andy was a wee a bairn in his nappy " Didn't think you were that old ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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