pete_scorpa3 Posted June 2, 2013 Report Share Posted June 2, 2013 Strange, it must be down to personal choice, .....or age maybe? But I find non stop trials more interesting to watch. Especially at WTC level. I soon start to loose interest in watching when every riders completes an identical pre-set piece, you know the thing - Ride down, stop, pivot turn, stop, hop left, hop right, hop left half a tyre, check down to see that the rear wheel is in the correct rut, look up, change down to first, change back to second, rev bike, change up to third, look down again etc etc. Before riding up the three foot verticle step exactly the same as the previous ten riders. I love trials, and there is a place for these types of skills, and I believe that is indoors or in arena trials. As I've said before, given the choice I would rather rider stop allowed, but my finishing position under either rules is just about the same. Pete 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie_lejeune Posted June 2, 2013 Report Share Posted June 2, 2013 id be for the no stop if it opened the events up to 70 riders like 25 years ago- lets see maybe when we get to the rounds in europe. If not, why not a 15 rider spectacle like was already there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadianbeta Posted June 4, 2013 Report Share Posted June 4, 2013 I was at the trial, I enjoy watching no stop. Good flow through the sections, seemed to give some more room for some interesting line selection. The worst part is its impossible to check perfectly consistent ( or remotely consistent in some sections, some rolling backwards even). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copemech Posted June 4, 2013 Report Share Posted June 4, 2013 (edited) Personally, I find all this debate over no -stop somewhat offensive to trials in general! As a relative newcomer still, at just a couple years or a decade, I cannot compare to the knowledge and history of many of the great riders on this forum, however, it is my belief that the rules of the times were written for a reason and to be interpreted within the spirit of the trial (trials contest). I do not believe the term no-stop was derrived to address a slight pause or balance ck on flat ground, but yet the lack of forward progression that may occur when one is stalled on an uphill rock or log, and connot progress within a reasonable period of time even with a dab or two, he has just ceased forward progression and thus a failure on the course. Next rider! He may either be able to recover , or not, without signifigant rollback for advantage, not just rocking the bike on the rock. Come the stop allowed rules, allowed progression in the skillset to stop, hop setup for an obsticle. Now if you want to cut out all the BS fecking about, just put in the time limit! Nothing has ever sataed that the time limits could not be set per section! It could vary! I guess if we are going to five all for a stalled motor balanced recovery, we might as well delete other skills such as walking and chewing gum! So then I take all this no stop to WTC level! Here I really need to get some points off these guys, because it is really hard to do without killing them in the process! So what do I do? Tell the observers to be leinient! Now that is all good for the clubman, as in the first part and the spirit of the trials, yet at this level? I say NO! If I see the spokes stop turning, you are done! Sory Mr Bou, etc! I need to hand out some points today, thanks for playing, better luck next time around! All point being, they are in a different league, it is not what we as mortals ride, it is a circus! And it is really effing with the rest of us because of it! Other new rules as well, such as toutching a marker! That is total bollox on a club level! Marker displacement is one thing, but "toutching it"? Get friggin real! Many do not have enough ground to set a decent trial in the first place! Sections must be tight in some given areas. I think all this has come way too far fron not putting feet down, folks confused and peed off! Cannot work this way! Edited June 4, 2013 by copemech 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted June 4, 2013 Report Share Posted June 4, 2013 Copemech well said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telecat Posted June 4, 2013 Report Share Posted June 4, 2013 The rule on "touching" a marker does not exist. The Wording is that the Observer most have to replace the marker/support before the passage of another rider. That applies to both the markers of the Course they are on as well as any other marker for other courses. Hence "touching" does not constitute a failure. the section is worded the same in the TSR22A Stop and TSR22B No Stop sections of the ACU Handbook. The FIM may have a different definition but is does not apply to ACU events. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadof2 Posted June 4, 2013 Report Share Posted June 4, 2013 Remember trials started out as no stop - a test of the rider and machines ability to ascend a gradient. As reliability improved more emphasis was placed on keeping feet up. Then time trials where the emphasis was on speed split off and became Enduro. Sometime in the late 1970s or 1980s continental observers began to not award a 5 for stopping or reversing and stopping became accepted. It is a pity this form of stop permitted riding was allowed to hijack traditional no stop trials. Stop and hop should have been a separate discipline just as Enduro had become. Cheers 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich delaney Posted June 5, 2013 Report Share Posted June 5, 2013 Stop & Hop was brought to us by the Bicycle Trials kids (like Bou, Raga and many before them) starting in the eighties. Trials bicycles have to stop & hop, it's impossible to peddle one of those bikes up anything. In spite of the fact that trials motorcycles have engines, the officials created sections that accommodated the bicycle trials riders, as you said were able to "hijack traditional no stop trials". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie_lejeune Posted June 5, 2013 Report Share Posted June 5, 2013 so do we go back to riding bultacos and beamish suzukis full time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted June 5, 2013 Report Share Posted June 5, 2013 so do we go back to riding bultacos and beamish suzukis full time? Why not we are getting bigger entries year on year unlike so many of the local "modern" clubs 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted June 5, 2013 Report Share Posted June 5, 2013 so do we go back to riding bultacos and beamish suzukis full time? Have you ridden a Vazqez Bultaco, might change your mind ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadof2 Posted June 5, 2013 Report Share Posted June 5, 2013 Following comment is based on my experience in northern England but I think getting more bums on seats is also behind ACU and FIM move towards no stop. modern bikes are too trials orientated, low (effectively useless), seats, small tanks, less than ideal reliability. Back in the 1970s and early 80s bikes were more versatile and could be used for local commuting, shepherding and general transport especially on hill farms. This meant many farmers and farm lads had them. It was quite easy for them to have a go in a trial. This ease of access and farmers familiarity with trials bikes was a big plus when looking for land for trials. Cheers 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted June 6, 2013 Report Share Posted June 6, 2013 Following comment is based on my experience in northern England but I think getting more bums on seats is also behind ACU and FIM move towards no stop. modern bikes are too trials orientated, low (effectively useless), seats, small tanks, less than ideal reliability. Back in the 1970s and early 80s bikes were more versatile and could be used for local commuting, shepherding and general transport especially on hill farms. This meant many farmers and farm lads had them. It was quite easy for them to have a go in a trial. This ease of access and farmers familiarity with trials bikes was a big plus when looking for land for trials. Cheers And the majority of our entries at our trials still come from the same catchment demographic. a very good point which I don't recall being made before. Loads of trials bikes were sold to farmers and their families / workforce. This is most definitely NOT the case anymore. Good PoV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telecat Posted June 6, 2013 Report Share Posted June 6, 2013 Easily the driving force behind the loss of sales to the farming community is the Quad bike. Let's face it MX bikes aren't seen on the road and you do not see many Enduro's either so the loss of road sales is a bit of a red herring. Back in OTF's day you adapted a road bike hence nobody actually SOLD you a Trials bike. This continued until the 60's when dedicated Trials machines began to appear for sale. Even then there were factory specials. The mass market really appeared in the 70's and gathered pace until the early 2000's. Since the "Mortgage" crisis and the effects of over taxing the "working" classes, (by which I mean those of us who PAYE), The markets for "leisure" machines has been squeezed. It's not helped by the choice of Machines increasing either. This means the price of a "ready" made Trials bike has increased as prices for parts perversely keep going up. Rules are rules they make no difference. The Cost of competing is the problem. Where Older bikes have an advantage is that many parts are available cheaper than Modern ones or that they can be more easily worked on by the amateur. So long as riders keep turning up to some Trials then they will eventually when the squeeze is off begin to find the time and money to come back and buy more new bikes and compete more. It's coming but we will have to hang on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funtrials Posted June 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2013 (edited) I think getting more bums on seats is also behind ACU and FIM move towards no stop. Agreed. Many people are thinking the same thing. The people who are pushing this ridiculous "no-talent", er, uh, I mean "no-stop" trials are driven by greed to increase corporate profit$ at the expense of the purity and tradition of our beautiful sport. So in the end, the battle boils down to this: its basically the corporate greed of the manufacturer$/importer$ versus those of us who want to maintain the purity of the sport. Pure trials allows stop/hop/rollbacks/bouncing-on-back-wheel-while-stationary, etc. This is ADMIRED in pure trials, not PENALIZED WITH THE MAXIMUM PENALTY! Pure trials is an art. They are, effectively, trying to soil that art in favor of the almighty dollar. While I'm glad we have trials bike manufacturers, my main concern is NOT whether we have, say, 7 trials manufacturers, or only 5 trials manufacturers, etc. Whether a corporate executive of a trials bike manufacturer/importer can afford to buy a new Jag every 2 years (or not) is not my concern. The "art" is my concern! I don't not enjoy watching Bou and Raga performing their art while wearing handcuffs. That's what the FIM has created by converting our beloved sport to Observed Endurocross. I don't CARE if Endurocro$$ makes more money than "real" trial$ does! Have them take their corporate agenda and get off our backs. The FIM has sold out to corporate greed. You see that with, for example, people who oversee the military (like the FIM oversees trials) who get in bed with the military equipment manufacturers, like the FIM is doing with the trial$ manufacturers. They already tried this "no-fun" route around 1998, and then they had to change it back a few years later. They never learn. Edited June 12, 2013 by funtrials Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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