funtrials Posted June 23, 2013 Report Share Posted June 23, 2013 (edited) I hope Grimbo gets it spot on!! Yep, typical, the FIM puts an ENDUROCROSS rider in charge of an observed TRIAL world round in an attempt to change our sport into Observed Endurocross like I've been saying all along. :-) (I'm just joking! Seriously, I have nothing but admiration for Graham, I've seen him ride in person multiple times, and I'm sure he'd will do fine, as he's done well in designing previous British world trials rounds before.) Edited June 23, 2013 by funtrials Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funtrials Posted June 23, 2013 Report Share Posted June 23, 2013 (edited) whats wrong with a winning score of 61 ? an average of about 2 per attempt !! I remember world rounds regularly won on higher scores than that. A rider in the top 7, French champion Loris Gubian, had almost SEVEN TIMES AS MANY FIVES as cleans! That's not trials, that's an Erzberg Rodeo on steroids. The last local trial I rode there were a grand total of 30 section-rides (total)....one rider in this world round had THIRTY-ONE FIVES (Pere Borrellas)! THIRTY-ONE! I assume he crashed violently on a fair number of those fives.....not what the crowd wants. Obviously something is wrong. Edited June 23, 2013 by funtrials Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattylad Posted June 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2013 whats wrong with a winning score of 61 ? an average of about 2 per attempt !! I remember world rounds regularly won on higher scores than that. The problem is that 4 sections were impossible for all riders which in my eyes mean the were not well plotted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funtrials Posted June 23, 2013 Report Share Posted June 23, 2013 (edited) The problem is that 4 sections were impossible for all riders which in my eyes mean the were not well plotted. I bet that they COULD have made some of those sections, had they been allowed to stop and gather their thoughts, to hop, to jump sideways, to jump in place on the back wheel, to roll backwards in a super-human effort to line up perfectly, to stop and catch their breath, to stop and study the obstacle ahead, to not have to divert mental energy to have to worry about "keeping forward motion or we hang you", etc. But we'll never know. Edited June 23, 2013 by funtrials Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funtrials Posted June 23, 2013 Report Share Posted June 23, 2013 (edited) The problem is that 4 sections were impossible for all riders which in my eyes mean the were not well plotted. HALF the sections the #5 rider didn't even make through once! Not once in three tries! Has the FIM changed the rules further to require all riders to ride TY80's? I've scored over 100 points in local trials and after those days I've thought about quitting. I am amazed though at how in most world trials they can have the points (usually) be pretty right on for the best rider in world history (Bou), AND ALSO for some 16 year old youth-class kid on a 125cc bike in his first world round, all w/in the SAME section (different lines, but that's easier said than done,) and the sections all seem to be pretty reasonable for all THREE lines. Pretty amazing. Edited June 23, 2013 by funtrials Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickwren Posted June 23, 2013 Report Share Posted June 23, 2013 yet more drivel from balanced individuals who weren't even there. Just for information the FIM didn't put Graham in charge of anything 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funtrials Posted June 23, 2013 Report Share Posted June 23, 2013 (edited) yet more drivel from balanced individuals who weren't even there. Please inform us as to the correct reason why the scores were so high then. Edited June 23, 2013 by funtrials Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lineaway Posted June 23, 2013 Report Share Posted June 23, 2013 Unless you were there competing or had some inside knowledge you will never get the true story of why. I enjoy your passion for trials, but you seem to come from a time that you never got a failure. (Like the all day dab) That is what was wrong with the rules. Not enough failures and too much time doing nothing. You will have lots more 5`s in no stop!!! The other problem was course set up for the rules. If they set sections that were ridden under stop and hop, now they are quite harder and could be ridiculously impossible with no-stop. I scored at Tennessee and we had a rock that was 50/50 on if you made it.(including Bou!) After I returned home I found footage of the same rock from the 2008 event. Most riders made the same rock easily with a stop and perfect set up. Now you have to take what you get on the approach. Totally different riding! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickwren Posted June 23, 2013 Report Share Posted June 23, 2013 Fun Trials, I don't know why the scores were so high, but I'm not on here claiming I do. My views on this topic are well known and I am working to secure the best possible future for my sport and that doesn't include posting anything without I'm sure of my facts Next week I will be spending 5 days away from my wife and work to attend the FIM Europe Congress to do what I can to move our sport forward. The other day I was at Nord Vue working on the British round and while we were there we had Thierry Michaud on the phone making sure we knew what was expected of us, maybe his time might have been better spent ringing Spain but I don't know that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funtrials Posted June 23, 2013 Report Share Posted June 23, 2013 Fun Trials, I don't know why the scores were so high, but I'm not on here claiming I do. My views on this topic are well known and I am working to secure the best possible future for my sport and that doesn't include posting anything without I'm sure of my facts Next week I will be spending 5 days away from my wife and work to attend the FIM Europe Congress to do what I can to move our sport forward. The other day I was at Nord Vue working on the British round and while we were there we had Thierry Michaud on the phone making sure we knew what was expected of us, maybe his time might have been better spent ringing Spain but I don't know that. I admire your efforts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadof2 Posted June 23, 2013 Report Share Posted June 23, 2013 (edited) Mick - did you get a chance to see riders in the sections at Richmond BTC at Reeth or were you stuck in front of computer all day? With the best will in the world section planners can't always set sections that prove to be of the right severity, possibly more so in this first year of no stop. Criticising the Spanish is almost certainly uncalled for despite the high scores. Over the years I have worked at setting out trials, mx and grasstrack with many different people and just like Mick they all have the best interests of the sport at heart and work damn hard to get it right and make it enjoyable for the riders. My view is that you should aim for a winners average score of about 0.3 to 0.5 marks per section, whilst at the same time the worst rider should average no more than 3 or 3.5. Cheers Edited June 23, 2013 by dadof2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funtrials Posted June 23, 2013 Report Share Posted June 23, 2013 I scored at Tennessee and we had a rock that was 50/50 on if you made it.(including Bou!) After I returned home I found footage of the same rock from the 2008 event. Most riders made the same rock easily with a stop and perfect set up. Now you have to take what you get on the approach. Totally different riding! A time limit puts an end to the all-day dab, as we saw in 2012. Sounds like the sport is going backwards if obstacles were much easier in the past than today! I like progress, not regress. People want to watch the world's best, they don't want to watch, say for example, beginner riders. I yearn for the day when that rock can be made by the average person, because the bikes will hopefully become so incredibly advanced (front wheel drive, electric, better tires, etc.). I think our region's very best rider can likely do more than, say, even world chamption Martin Lampkin could do (in certian sections) because of the great bike technology and better techniques etc. Unless he's handcuffed. You're absolutely right, it's "totally different riding"...inferior riding. Your example clearly shows that. Taking progress backwards, to appease the corporate interest$....not good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadof2 Posted June 23, 2013 Report Share Posted June 23, 2013 Who is actually the better rider - one who completes each part of the section so accurately he does not have to stop and mess about lining up the next part, or one that struggles up a bit, ends up off line then has to mess about lining up for the next bit. In the UK drivers have to do a parallel park manoeuvre on their driving test, those who do it smoothly in one go pass, those who have to shunt about fail. Cheers 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveo Posted June 23, 2013 Report Share Posted June 23, 2013 whats wrong with a winning score of 61 ? an average of about 2 per attempt !! I remember world rounds regularly won on higher scores than that. You really don't grasp what is happening to the "support" riders if the few top elite are making this type of score. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funtrials Posted June 23, 2013 Report Share Posted June 23, 2013 Mick - did you get a chance to see riders in the sections at Richmond BTC at Reeth or were you stuck in front of computer all day? With the best will in the world you can't always set sections that prove to be of the right severity, possibly more so in this first year of no stop. Criticising the Spanish is almost certainly uncalled for despite the high scores. Over the years I have worked at setting out trials, mx and grasstrack with many different people and just like Mick they all have the best interests of the sport at heart and work damn hard to get it right and make it enjoyable for the riders. My view is that you should aim for a winners average score of about 0.3 to 0.5 marks per section, whilst at the same time the worst rider should average no more than 3 or 3.5. Cheers The well-intentioned Spanish organizers likely wanted to provide some incredible rides for the crowd's benefit, but these now handcuffed two-wheeled gods were not able to deliver to the level that the Spanaird organizers were used to under the old, more spectacular, rules. Just like Endurocross riders can't tackle the same incredible obstacles as stop-allowed trials riders can handle, so too can no-stop trials riders not deliver the level of riding that stop-allowed trials riders can deliver. The new rules require a "dumbing down" of the performance level of these trials gods. The fans, the riders, and the sport, all suffer. However, a small cadre of elite corporate types (pulling strings behind the scenes) might laught all the way to the bank, but that's not our main concern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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