sawtooth Posted July 13, 2013 Report Share Posted July 13, 2013 (edited) Bike startas first time assuming I can actually get the engine to turn over, everytime I kick it the lever goes down but I don't think the engine is turning over. Just bought the bike and the guy who sold it to me said that to start it I have to not rest my foot on the lever first and not to take up the slack in the lever before kicking it, he said just to kick it straight off. This does seem to be working as everytime I've started it its been using that technique. I just find it odd because when starting my 4T Supermoto and my '07 rev 3 I rest my foot on the lever, find tdc then kick it, which works every time for those two bikes. Seems either the starter mechanism is knackered on the GasGas or I need a new technique for it? Here's a video of me finding TDC and kicking it, as you can see it seems like I dont get enough motor turning over for the amount of kick start lever travel, I get a loud click and the lever seems to go free for the rest of its travel and doesn't seem to turn the motor over? (Excuse the dirty bike ;-) ) http://youtu.be/Q8CplAIIA3A ***UPDATE*** It does seem to start a lot better when using the choke even when hot so guessing the kickstarter is actually fine and having only been out on it once I assumed that once hot I wouldn't need the choke. Edited July 14, 2013 by sawtooth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nelly1 Posted July 13, 2013 Report Share Posted July 13, 2013 that does sound a bit odd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawtooth Posted July 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2013 Not just me then, will make a video tomorrow so I can fully explain whats going on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dombush Posted July 13, 2013 Report Share Posted July 13, 2013 (edited) Sawtooth I dont doubt that the technique is working, but you've just described the quickest way to damage the kickstart mechanism. The manner that you describe puts shock load on the gear / teeth / ratchet (e.g. your instinct is correct) Not owning a 280 personally i'm happy to be told otherwise, but a video speaks a thousand words. Credit to Jim Snell for this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdM4qkAqywk If this is the case the question might be why do you need to do this? Edited July 13, 2013 by dombush 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawtooth Posted July 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2013 Exactly why I'm asking if it's normal cause iy doesn't feel like it, as said will add a video tomorrow so you can see what I'm on about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jse Posted July 13, 2013 Report Share Posted July 13, 2013 Exactly why I'm asking if it's normal cause iy doesn't feel like it, as said will add a video tomorrow so you can see what I'm on about. " Just bought the bike and the guy who sold it to me said that to start it I have to not rest my foot on the lever first and not to take up the slack in the lever before kicking it, he said just to kick it straight off." This guy is a sponsored rider, at least uninformed and at best, just ignorant of Trials bike engines. They have massive flywheels that don't take kindly to movement when at rest and that's why its a big shock to the racheting mechanism when the kickstart lever is stomped on. You can start them that way, but not for long. You need to take up the slack and then put some weight on it to get that flywheel mass moving. Start it like a Harley, not an RM125 and you'll be fine. It was common for TY350 owners to snap the long forged steel kickstart by stomping on them. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawtooth Posted July 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2013 Thats the thing, it wont start if I try to start it normally, if I take the slack up, find tdc and push down, the lever goes down but the engjne does not turn over? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawtooth Posted July 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2013 (edited) Have added a video to the first post :-) Have also watched the video above and thats generally how I start my other bikes, its just this new (to me) Gas Gas dosent seem to like to find TDC or turn the motor over fully for the whole stroke of the lever? Edited July 14, 2013 by sawtooth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsafive Posted July 14, 2013 Report Share Posted July 14, 2013 Your video shows exactly the same issue I had. I also found the bike very hard to start wen hot and had to use choke. See my recent thread on 'Hot Starting Issues'. I ended up replacing the piston and rings as the rings were very worn. My theory is that the extra velocity you get from hacking at the kick start gives just enough compression. Bike now starts first kick from cold with the technique shown in the Jim Snell video. When very hot some throttle I required for a first kick start. The job is very easy and can be achieved without removing the engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lineaway Posted July 14, 2013 Report Share Posted July 14, 2013 The gas gas gears have to be carefully engaged since it is a crap design. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dombush Posted July 14, 2013 Report Share Posted July 14, 2013 At least 2 of those kicks should have started it (or would have started mine) If it were me, next steps:- Compression check, cold, wide open throttle, 5 kicks... expect something around 150 - 170 psi Check the ignition timing is std Dom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawtooth Posted July 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2013 Thanks :-) I tried it again later on and it seemed to start first time every time but only if I had the choke on??!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shercoben12 Posted July 15, 2013 Report Share Posted July 15, 2013 thats normal when you kick it over. dont think theres issues with kickstart gears but maybe low compression? lineaway! someone agrees with me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawtooth Posted July 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2013 Cool thanks, will check the compression :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sting32 Posted July 18, 2013 Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 (edited) Just watched your clip, haven't read what people remarked, but you are ABSOLUTELY doing it wrong, this isn't your (fathers) old dirtbike. Best practice for starting a gasgas (we're talking about an 02 or newer PRO engine/model as OP pictured in his video), so save undue wear and tear of lightweight starting parts that will break when you do a TDC attempt, eventually! Snell's video is from the OLD pre 2004 TXT & dirbike engines. 1. Rock a cold bike back and forth in 2nd or 3rd gear with choke on, about 6 times in NICE summer weather, more if colder. when you finish, make sure the last thing you did was rock backwards. This leaves the piston at the past dead center, and now has about 3/4ths of a revolution before TDC (hard compression). 2. Pull kicker out, do NOT "do that find TDC, bulloney" just kick! you will find you get to get the parts rotating with a little momentum, and the LEAST resistance at first, where your leg is feeling akward to "rotate" the kicker with LOTS of speed, NOT FORCE IT!!!! NOTES: plus the rocking the bike back an forth FROM compression to compression helps charge combustion chamber with FUEL. Gasgas is notorious for barely enough "choke/enrichment" with choke on. PS if you have the Delorto Carb, if you twist throttle while kicking the bike, with choke on, you pretty much "negate" or "cause ineffective" the choke setting. Try it. I kick my bike 1 time, every time when unloading from truck, weather it is 80 degrees F at home, or 40F (wintertime) using the above method. WHILE YOU ARE AT IT... Hot starts work best this way too, I rock the bike back, since I left it in gear you know with clutch drag lol... Then I just pull clutch and kick. if you don't eventually you'll BEND the kick lever, or worse, also some point the kicker gear and idler gear will break or chunk out. Good luck. I should make a video and post it up here in the future, because Snell's video is on the NON PRO, which is a totally different engine and all, more like any common dirt bike! Edited July 18, 2013 by sting32 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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