Norman Villiers Trialsbike

[traf]

I've had converted Norman B4 for many years, originally a roadster with 2T engine, so I fitted an 8E and set about mod-ing it for Vintage trials in UK. Now in France and hoping to get it sorted again , so can anyone offer advice please.

The gearbox is off a 125 12D I think with 17t sprocket and primary is also 12D I recall.

The barrel for some reason I had .040" milled off the top to raise compression, perhaps not a wise choice. porting is standard and I'd like to choose a Mikuni I think inplace of the original S24 and S25's carb's I've been using ,question is which one?

I'm about to give it a rebore as it's worn,are there any other choices than the Villiers in use?

Naturally it has the half-circle cranks and one of those needs big-end replacement, anyone know of a full-circle crank for the 8E?

There seems to be enough for 9E's but maybe someone can advise on 6E/7E/8E's?

Thanks traf

[hammertight]

The Villiers 6E/8E engine is, in my experience, a good little engine for trials use. The Villiers carb is also a good instrument, and easy to tune. A characteristic of the half circle (hammer head) crankshaft assembly is it's ability to help find and maintain grip in good muddy sections..... So I'd advise building the engine carefully to standard spec. first, and see how it goes. A three speed gearbox has strong pinions and is narrower than the later four speed. The 6/8E barrels can be bored to take a Villiers 1H piston, giving a useful 225cc. These little engines in "soft" tune will pull to their last gasp.... Are Vintage two stroke class trials still your intention? Good luck anyway and hope this helps.....

[norman_wisdom]

Hi there, nice to hear of another Norman out there, and a B4 at that.

I would echo all the above.

Re the Possible Mikuni setup, IF the 8E standard inlet manifold fixings are the same as the 9e (and I cant tell you that) then using one of the aftermarket 'swan-neck' alloy trials manifolds (designed for Amal 600s etc and available from a few people online) will give you a stud pattern that works with Mikuni VM22 (mm) and up size carbs. You might need to slightly open up the flange holes on the Mikuni by a mill or so on either side.

Keep us updated, would be good to see a photo of the bike if you have any online anywhere?

[traf]

Thanks for your replies,sorry been a little pre-occupied with tornado we had down here in Central France. My original carb was the S24 and and after some erratic behaviour I found the first body was porous as Swiss cheese,temp fix,Araldite. Another S24 and a bit better along with other mods and things began to work. Later I fitted an S25,but I always these carbs were past their best even with new needles etc;hence the thought of a Mikuni; I happen to have a VM22 spare off my GP100. This has a male stub-fitting as does the Villiers manifold;on the 8E it swings to the left side,anyway a rubber tube would link it up.I do have 26mm concentric but most manifolds I've seen cater for the 9E.

I think I am tied to the hammerhead crank having 2 or 3, a friend has offered full-circle when I can collect. I still have the brass flywheel but after a altercation with a tree-stump that broke three of the six quarter BSF countersunk and biffed the ignition coil I went to total-loss ignition 6volt system Bosch coil using the original contacts, a remote condensor and a 4.5amp battery from Maplin's for about a tenner.

I'm not too certain what the best cylinder set-up is,anyone have experience of porting and compressions??

The exhaust is maybe the most detrimental thing as I made them, first the cross-over pipe going left to right over the top of the flywheel;this was a cut and shut and may reflect the gases back too soon. Then it was up to a cross-box with the tailpipe directing toward the rear chain in the hope of blowing off dirt.

The bike was originally a B4, a roadbike with a 2T which was sold-off as I had the 8E. Engineplates I modified and later as I discovered unwieldly steering I simply put a rope torneque from the front to rear wheel, unpinned the downtube at the front engineplate and wound the rope until the wheelbase became like the Greeves Anglian, another leading-link trialer,much better. I also now have 10" of ground clearance and more once rear shocks go long.I have just ordered various seals ,rings and a 13-tooth gearbox to fit the 3-speed box coupled with a 68-tooth rear, a primary of 18-tooth x 51. In the box only the sleeve-gear (26t) and matching laygear(14t) are any different from stock.So to sum-up the problem areas are: exhaust,barrel,carb and rider .

Look forward to finding some events for the bike here even if it means some kilometres ,thanks for replies and could use some more.

[hammertight]

Hi there. You'll appreciate that it's vital to keep one step ahead of the competition....and so some hard won secrets must remain just that.... but for what they're worth, here's a short list from a mainly 6E trials motor for your consideration.... and this motor has been out through the "Ends Cards" on The Pipeline.... with a wee bit of help from the size 10 Dunlop Wellies.... Anyway: 1.Cylinder head with decompressor for steep drops and kick starting. 2.6E Barrel bored to take Villiers 1H piston. Recommend using NOS rings. 3. Hammer-head crank for grip. 4.Original Villiers carb, never had a problem. 5. Three speed gearbox, slim with strong pinions and fitted with wide ratio D7283 High Gear Pinion 26T and E7287 Layshaft Fixed pinion 16T. A 58T rear sprocket is used and 2nd gear can be used given a good section run-in speed... 6. R123 high output flywheel with remote Villiers HT coil and Intermotor 33120 condenser.(Replaces Bo 1 237 330 305) 7. Remove the dome from a spare clutch front plate and "double-up" this plate over existing front plate to give extra spring preload. 8. Keep your feet up!

Edited August 1, 2013 by hammertight

[traf]

Thanks once again. Going through your suggestions the de-comp head I have and was on my list of "to-does",quite true I used to descend sections and have a gassed-up motor. The 26tooth and 16 tooth gears I have but were somehow set aside in some previous repair, and 3-speed is fine by me , just bought the 13 tooth gearbox sprocket,seals,rings etc for repair. The piston is old style 3/32" thick ring but NOS as you suggest and barrel is at +030" with 040" milled off top. For that 225 piston I only have this or worn +20" barrel.

The ignition I'll leave as is for now but note what you say. Should have this done today and until I get alternative carb I will try the best of Villiers carbs . Next week there's a bike-jumble in Rouxmazieres so maybe a carb might be found there as French employed a lot of Villiers postwar.

I did have 60 tooth rear sprocket but now put on 68 tooth in hope of mountain-goat ability. Main problem is it's been laid-up for so long with odd ride about the garden here. Not wishing to swipe anyone's secrets;just get this thing running near correct,anyway I'll keep posted and see if I can load-up my photos of the bike. Thanks

[hoover]

I'm in the process of converting my B2S to C spec.

Is there a relatively easy way to improve power and tick over as mine does not like to tick over either warm or cold. It has coil ignition and starts first kick sovmust be something simple lol.

[hammertight]

Hello Traf, How are you getting on with the engine?

[laird387]

Hi,

If you look in my Offroad Archive section you will find a whole load of Norman trials models pictured.

Enjoy.