davdeborg Posted July 23, 2013 Report Share Posted July 23, 2013 started to put clutch back together bought new push rod mushroom push rod and new ball bearing. when I took it all apart the long push rod was ok so was the mushroom push rod but I had no ball bearing? instead I had a short piece of tapered rod about 10mm long . any ideas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted July 23, 2013 Report Share Posted July 23, 2013 (edited) You should have a pushrod, then a ball bearing, then the mushroom. 10mm is too long to take the place of a missing ball bearing. There are two lengths for the pushrod. The later bikes with the slimmer timing case (the one with the thumb logo) have a shorter pushrod and kickstart shaft. I don't know the lengths off the top of my head but if you had the later pushrod fitted, it would be too short with the normal ball bearing, maybe why there is a 10mm piece instead. Or. someone has got the clutch adjusted incorrectly but I'm not sure it's possible to get it that far out.... You can check the length with Bultaco UK or someone on here may have one handy to measure. I don't at the moment. Edited because I forgot to say:- If you have bought new pushrod, ball and mushroom from Bultaco UK it will be the right one for the job, so if you can't adjust the clutch up as described in the other thread, something else is wrong. Check the number of clutch plates as the thickness of the pack will also affect adjustment. Edited July 23, 2013 by woody 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davdeborg Posted July 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2013 no mate I never had ball bearing had badly worn push rod and almost like a tapered hollow piece of metal about 10mm long then the mushroom . anyway that's all gone now . the springs I fitted were about 12mm longer than ones taken out although bike starts fine now no clutch slip have clutch drag quite bad with clutch in bike wants to move in 1st and 2nd although its adjusted right cant take out any more slack cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted July 23, 2013 Report Share Posted July 23, 2013 12mm longer springs.... I'm guessing these are new too, so they would be right but 12mm longer...? What was in there...?? There's no reason for it to drag, have you put new plates in? Have you got the right number of plates? The first plate to go in is a drive plate, the one that locates on the hub. There are 5 drive, 5 friction plates and the cover plate. Too many plates and it won't free off properly. With your engine, the clutch springs are held by pins so there is no way of getting unequal tension on the springs as there is with the bikes that are tensioned with nuts. The clutch plates should seperate evenly when the pushrod pushes back the cover plate. Obviously the clutch cover has to come off again to check this. I ride mine around the garden with the cover off until I get the clutch set right so I can see what's going on with it. Also, have you got the clutch arm set in the right position on the timing cover. Make sure it is positioned so that the arm is being pulled by a straight inner cable. To far back and you are pulling against the pivot, too far forward and there isn't enough movement to free off the clutch. The pushrod is 185mm long by the way, I found one to measure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davdeborg Posted July 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2013 yes they were new springs they are metal on metal plates yes there in the right order but I I have 6 drive plates and six friction plates plus the cover plate ?? that's what came out ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davdeborg Posted July 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2013 12mm longer springs.... I'm guessing these are new too, so they would be right but 12mm longer...? What was in there...?? There's no reason for it to drag, have you put new plates in? Have you got the right number of plates? The first plate to go in is a drive plate, the one that locates on the hub. There are 5 drive, 5 friction plates and the cover plate. Too many plates and it won't free off properly. With your engine, the clutch springs are held by pins so there is no way of getting unequal tension on the springs as there is with the bikes that are tensioned with nuts. The clutch plates should seperate evenly when the pushrod pushes back the cover plate. Obviously the clutch cover has to come off again to check this. I ride mine around the garden with the cover off until I get the clutch set right so I can see what's going on with it. Also, have you got the clutch arm set in the right position on the timing cover. Make sure it is positioned so that the arm is being pulled by a straight inner cable. To far back and you are pulling against the pivot, too far forward and there isn't enough movement to free off the clutch. The pushrod is 185mm long by the way, I found one to measure. the Haynes manual showing 12 plates as that's what I have mate your saying fit the one that fits on hub first ? by looking at Haynes its showing he tabbed one first knew I should have left alone lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted July 23, 2013 Report Share Posted July 23, 2013 I'm sure it's 5 as standard, but, I'm going from memory and I have Barnett friction plates which are thicker than the Bultaco steels. I can't check until I get back to the bike which will be the weekend. I think the Frontera had 6 plates but they were thinner, so the overall thickness of the pack was the same. Visually, the inside face of the cover plate seats about flush with the edge of the basket. The Haynes manual shows the plates fitted one way, the Clymer shows them the other way.... I've always fitted the drive plate first and never have any clutch issues. If you speak to Bultaco UK they'll confirm it for you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guys Posted July 24, 2013 Report Share Posted July 24, 2013 (edited) I think if you fit the plate that fits on the hub first, your aluminium clutch basket wont last very long as the steel plate wil damage it. This is the correct way i.m.o.: About the number of clutch plates: The pressure plate should always just fit over the clutch hub cams so it rotates as one unit. Edited July 24, 2013 by guys 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bondy Posted July 24, 2013 Report Share Posted July 24, 2013 on the friton plates i have bought from inmotion its the metel plate first then the frition plate you should finish with a metel plate. i was told this off inmotion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted July 24, 2013 Report Share Posted July 24, 2013 I think if you fit the plate that fits on the hub first, your aluminium clutch basket wont last very long as the steel plate wil damage it. This is the correct way i.m.o.: About the number of clutch plates: The pressure plate should always just fit over the clutch hub cams so it rotates as one unit. Yes, but the other manual shows the plates fitted the other way. What you really need is the Bultaco manual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guys Posted July 24, 2013 Report Share Posted July 24, 2013 (edited) I'm sorry, you're correct : I have the clutch plate kit with modern friction material and if I did not leave the first (steel) plate out of it, the total amount of plates would be to thick: The pressure plate would not engage with the clutch hub cams. Edited July 24, 2013 by guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bondy Posted July 24, 2013 Report Share Posted July 24, 2013 was talking to a guy whos had bultacos 40 years he said you can put them on eigther way he also said hes had no damage what so ever to the clutch basket with the plate going on the hub first. so its up to you witch way you do it am going with inmotion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davdeborg Posted July 24, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2013 was talking to a guy whos had bultacos 40 years he said you can put them on eigther way he also said hes had no damage what so ever to the clutch basket with the plate going on the hub first. so its up to you witch way you do it am going with inmotion. was on the phone to inmotion as I had few things I ordered and was told the same they have had bikes with them done both ways they said never had a problem either way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bondy Posted July 24, 2013 Report Share Posted July 24, 2013 i do have 2 spare clutch baskets 1 alloy 1 steel but you will be ok i did put a new clutch on my 199A with all the 5 steel plates and the 4 frition plates and it was fine. its beter to ask the quetion if your not sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted July 24, 2013 Report Share Posted July 24, 2013 I'm sorry, you're correct : I have the clutch plate kit with modern friction material and if I did not leave the first (steel) plate out of it, the total amount of plates would be to thick: The pressure plate would not engage with the clutch hub cams. Guys, I wasn't trying to prove you were wrong, it's just that the Haynes manual says one way and the Clymer says the other, but the proper Bultaco manual would show how they came from the factory. I have Barnett friction plates which are thicker than the standard steel plates, but I fit them slightly different from how you do it. I still use the steel drive plate as the first plate in the clutch but only use 4 of the Barnett plates with one of the original Bultaco steel plates to get the pressure plate in the correct position. Same result, just a different method. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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