Arizona National Feedback

[outlaw dave]

Forums are always interesting, especially when they get somewhat "heated" - I don't usually get involved, but growing up during the second World War in the UK, I do have a lot of background in both the reasons for the USA coming into the war, and also why there is still the animosity, between the two great Countries. - There is a saying that you have to walk in another man's shoes before you can understand him.

While the thread is not about the Ugly American - there is no doubt that there are people from both continents ( usually younger folk) who have little knowledge of what actually went on between 1939 and 1945. - I came to Canada in 1965,- put on the very first Canadian World Championship in 1975, and have been a dedicated Trials rider since 1955. - I read all the forums on all the sites and do a daily blog on my site www.outlawtrials,com - For most people in Europe, they have absolutely no idea about the vast distance that North American riders have to travel, but on the other side of the equation - in the UK driving from the South of England to Scotland is a very big trip. - Tons of traffic in the UK versus wide open roads in the either Canada or the States. - At age 76, I've been lucky to meet , ride with lots of great people from England, and North America, and my final point is that while Trials, as somebody pointed out might be the "Secret Sport" - the true enthusiast will always be out there, whether they are in Europe or any other place in the World. - And most of them get along just fine.

[outlaw dave]

Another point that I forgot ( being an older guy) is that cost is a huge factor for people attending an event - However, getting the schedule out early in the year is super important, and as somebody mentioned keeping the entry fee low is a must. - For us people in the Western part of North America, Forest Fires in the Summer are a real threat every year, so that could well have effected the low turn out at the USA event.

The bottom line is that folk will come back to ride any event if they have had fun in previous years, whether that be in Yorkshire, Scotland, Wales or Canada and the USA. - It's the job of the organizer to listen to the riders. - end of story..

[billyt]

Well said Dave.

My earlier point in my prior post is that great, good advertising vie the C.A.T. web site for this national event may/could have persuaded people to take the trip, spend the money. After all is this not the point of advertising to get people take trips go on vacation etc?

The web site could have also eased the concerns about AZ temperatures, wild fires etc

[joekarter]

I'm a member of the hosting club, checked both days, and hope everyone who came had as much fun riding as I had working the event. I walked most of the sections that I didn't check, and can honestly say they would have been a blast to ride.

My thoughts:

There's no doubt that the temperature listed on the web for Kingman that time of year had a lot to do with peoples initial opinions. The trials site is up in the mountains outside of town and has awesome weather, but just a casual internet search for Kingman would make it look like you'd be riding in 110 degrees. Perhaps it might have been better to advertise the event as “The Haulapai Mountains National” and then listed the site as near Kingman.

The fire that went on for several weeks prior to the trials undoubtedly had an impact. I had numerous e-mails and calls from trials folks asking if it was going to be canceled. In the end it ended up being a non-factor, but at one point it looked like a major concern and perhaps better communication of the situation might have helped folks make a more positive decision on attending.

The economy, and travel in particular, are without a doubt the biggest issue affecting ours and every other sport. A year ago I made the trip from where I live in north-central Arizona and rode the national in California. My pickup gets about 20 MPG, I ate cheap, stayed in “way less than great” hotels, and pretty much did things as inexpensively as possible. In the end, I spent right at $600. Did I have a blast? You bet, but that was pretty much all the play budget would allow...one national.

I come originally from a karting background, and while there are plenty of regional and nationwide series you can go to, the national championships have historically been a one-site event spread over the course of several days. Perhaps until the economy picks up, it might be worth considering holding single weekend eastern and western regional events with some sort of final championship in the middle of the country.

One of my biggest concerns involves the Pro class. I know it's become very unpopular to mention safety in this era of X-games sports, but my personal opinion is that the sections have gone beyond being extremely difficult and moved to something with the potential to seriously injure the participants. And in this guys opinion, it's just not needed. With an eye toward making the sections more technical, plenty of points can be taken from even the best riders without risking catastrophic injury. Is Pat still gonna win? At this point, most certainly. But, I honestly belive the Pro turnout would be higher if the risk was a 120 point trial rather than the potential for a helocopter ride to the nearest hospital.

Edited August 7, 2013 by joekarter

[steve fracy]

Thats dedication to the sport, for us, traveling to fort william for the ssdt once a year is a big deal! Thats only a 500mile round trip.

I expect we would be using similar trials transport if we had to travel as far as you guys did every week or month.

Thanks for the level headed and to the point post! Distance and the cost of travelling that distance is now in my opinion the biggest factor to why entries are dwindling. We CHOSE to go to the Eastern US to ride 4 Nationals. I venture to guess, coming from Vancouver Island in Canada, we travelled the farthest out of anyone. In order to get our bikes out there with a friend who drove, we had to ad to our expenses, 3 rounds trips on the ferry. ( one to deliver bikes, one to drive south to fly back east, and another to pickup bikes after they arrived home) Thats an addtional $600 in ferry fares, not to mention fuel etc.

We are just like many folks who love the sport and are very dedicated. But, we dont complain about it, its just what we are used to. Some great points brought up here and Dave is right that OTF, you shouldn't be making negative comments about folks on this side of the pond unless you have spent some time here!

Edited August 7, 2013 by steve fracy

[steve fracy]

now if they just had mudd races, moon shine, and stripper poles at the events...id be in Redneck heven lol..

Chuck, all you need now is and invite to the NATC meeting, and start implementing some of these initiatives,,,,and watch the entries climb!

[hensley]

My son instead of riding expert class at the nationals spends time and $$$ riding mx at local track on friday night in novice class its 30 miles away and has around 100 riders his age and younger. he will probably never be real good at mx he is too old to start out and his 6' 6 frame a little large also. I love trials but am a poor rider so we cant really ride together no one to ride with in his area.In his life He has probably both practiced and competed in 10% of the events that most riders at his level has and could be riding pro today if he wanted to work his job 10-15 hrs per week or cut girlfriend time out and spend thousands traveling the nationals each year which might be fine for upper middle class looking for entertainment but not very practical for farm boys.He still does regionals and is ahead in the series might win this year if he even shows up for rest of series.

The solution I have no idea I dont think there is one. I guess ill join the group that says trials will probably never grow much. (unless there is someone who can make some money by promoting it it wont grow) but it cant be killed either ( no stop business a good way to plumb kill it to me) its to much fun for 2-3-4 just to get together and ride sections. I do know if there was a stadium trials event on Friday might 30 miles away i would be there every week. To me riding trials is the best hobby or sport around by far second to none but convincing the rest of the world or even a small part is damn hard.

[chuckindenver]

i do have some ideas..on how to help this sport grow here.. first and foremost...i love our pro riders..the talent and skills are simply crazy..

but lets look at a few items.

the mass entry is from what groups.? the support level riders.. iv seen in the past..a big deal made over the pro class,.rightfully so..but..maybe some highlights should be taken of the other classes..expert, HS. CM, TS womens, ect...give the pros some spot light...but take that same spot light and shine it on the top 3 club man riders..and all the other class winners...show case the TS line..maybe a spot in Trial and Enduro news...or the AMA mag.

push those classes...and as these younger riders progress.. like Chase Abbot, Tye Cullins Alex Tucker and others..say something about them..these kids are the next pro riders.. iv watched all these kids..and they get good...real fast.. show case the women riders...Maddie. Ratchel Sarah , they all can out ride most of us..

wouldnt supprise me to see any of our lady riders at the X games kickin butt and taken names...the 3 lead riders right now..came from Trials...even though, my favorite has been beat up with injuries...broken foot, and now a broken color bone.

the Top mens enduro X pro riders...are trials rides...and usually little if anything is said...that really needs to change.

rather then change the rules to try and fix an issue. {card 5s} deal with the riders that abuse the rules..dont make all of us suffer.

whatever club is hosting an event.. make sure they have plenty of posters to hand out to local shops. advertise a bit..

i think the sections are set just about right at this time.. yea. the pro level stuff looks pretty crazy...but they usually ride right up it..and if you keep safety in mind when you string that tape...and have someone at that level actually ride it.. example.. if your setting an expert line...and your not real sure its safe..have an expert rider thats not going to compete at that event...ride it.. they should be able to get through without too much trouble, even if they put a foot down, or struggle a bit..

here in teh U.S. Trials has been the best kept secret in motorcycle racing.. if you start telling people...and welcoming them into your group...it wont be a secret... handshakes, smiles, go much further then ass chewing and grumpy..

all BS asside..this is a family sport, most of our kids ride, wives and GFs ride or score, help at the table... National events are a little more tight with rules, and such...but...make it friendly..if people have fun...they will come back. and do it again..

if they would up the purse a bit for the Pro riders.. {not hard to do} more would show..and more would ride..all you have to do is have a local bus sponser the event, put that bus, name on the T shirts, posters, act...have them donate the money...chances are they can write it off as well.

riders love free stuff...get some give away goodies, gloves, tires ect...its really not that tough...but you have to try..

Edited August 7, 2013 by chuckindenver

[old trials fanatic]

OK I know i'm not part of your scene over there but we also suffer from small entries over here. Our club mostly only averages 50 - 60 entries per trial so it is a world wide problem.

Re your National series just a suggestion and I do mean this sincerely.

1. Would it not be possible for a company to transport bikes to all rounds then the riders could just fly there and share a hire car and accommodation ?

2. Would it not be possible for a local dealer to supply bikes on a hire basis and again riders could fly and share a hire car and accommodation ?

When I have ridden in Spain I have both flown and borrowed a bike when there and also the following year transported 6 bikes in my van while the riders flew over and we all shared the travel costs making it far more affordable.

I am given to understand internal flights and car hire in the US is supposed to be very cheap and I would of thought for a bit of advertising coverage then a deal could be struck with a carrier and a car hire company perhaps.

OK what do I know i'm just a dumb European but I am trying to offer a viable suggestion.

[plunker10]

Oh this thread again..”how do we get more Trials riders?...”

I’m not condemning it, I would love to see it happen but I am a realist and Trials is stuck with its legacy of producing some of the best riders in the world that no one has ever heard of.

I see Trials as a great training tool for the kids and for me, it will always remain as my kinda “Golf”.

So to add to this thread:

Something that surprised me with its increase with spectators/ riders turning out to www.AHSCS.com CrossCountry/HareScrambles events is having an “open ride day” on Sat before the race on Sun. For $10, you get to ride the nice groomed and Arrowed track that will be raced on Sun. just calling it an “open ride day or Trail day” and not “practice” seamed to bring out more riders not wanting to RACE but wanting to just trail ride. This $10 also gets them into the gate for Sun. when many would learn about the race and maybe try it later. This may work for Trials also because there are many more Trials bikes NOT being used for competition that may just want a playday

Or maybe a plan like: Bring your Toys, ie… ATV, MX, Enduro, DS, Adv.Rider (tie in a road ride) and come ride the loop. While you’re there check out some of the “Best Riders in the world” doing crazy things on their funny bikes.

I’ve seen it suggested, adding Dual Sport or Trail bike classes to Trials. This works! At the local level. How about at a Nati.? I would try it. Use Enduro X to help Trials. Set-up some real easy sections. The Bikes must be over 55”wb, have stock gearing and be stock or mass produced. Many Enduro X type events are happening locally, why not take advantage of it by offering something less brutal that helps develop skills.

As you may have guessed we ride mainly local XC now. Why? $10 Rocky Mountain ATV/MC gift cards at every event entered. We get 50% discount on everything, Free stuff like Helmets, gear, Tires at some events and for YEA. Pro pay-outs from $100 to $400. I have seen the Bad sportsmanship attitudes but I was told to “treat others the way you want to be treated” at least at our events, there has been a development of a great community of riders helping each other out.

So No, I’m haven’t given-up on Trials, just that there are more reasons not to travel and spend big $$ to go to a Nati.

PS: I do think that the section difficulty has good and bad effects. Some see it as a negative “we have to do that!?!” so more technical sections don’t look as dangerous but on YouTube the BIG stuff looks great.

Edited August 7, 2013 by plunker10

[chuckindenver]

many riders do ride share, haul a buddies bike so to speak. it not really cost effective to pay a company to drag them accross the states.

iv hauled a bike or 2 for other riders that are flying out..they usually kick in a few dollars for fuel, and or share a nice meal with me..

Edited August 8, 2013 by chuckindenver

[copemech]

I will open a can of worms here and tell you I think you guys are NUTS!

Fun is fun, and all that, but it has allways seemed to me the majority of riders who ride the Nationals are just Hard Core riders with enough time and money to pursue the trek around the BIG country!

Good luck with all that, as I have never had the lux of skill, money or time to do it!

And I am referring to Support Class here, as the Pros get there anyway.

$50 K annually, yea right! You are committed! Or need to be!

[chuckindenver]

yup...crazy is as crazy does..

to make it even worse.. i like to ride the Nationals on a twin shocker.

i have a brand new Beta that has less then 20 hours ride time.. and as nice as it is..would rather beat up my TLR 250.

or jump on my TR32 or 34... crazy aint it?

at 50, i no longer have the interest in MX...as i dont know how to race slow..and my body protests a bit....

im single. self employed..i dont drink, dont ski. dont hunt as much as i used to, have made the choice to ride as much as i can, while im still healthy enough to do so, ill never ride at the Pro level, doubt ill ever ride a modern expert event,

i love the kids, and would rather help out the younger riders then ride sometimes.. 50 grand is a cheap thrill, as compared to what alot of people toss away at other things..its only money...and ill make more..

when you die...the last 11.00 in your wallet, will be taken by someone that loves you...and spent on a cheeseburger..your bikes will get sold off, the trophies, ribbons, and wall plaqes will get tossed in the trash..

a little back ground...my sweet blonde haired wife died a few years ago,..and then i figured out how short our time is on this earth..

you dont get to do it over, and we only have so many minutes, why not enjoy every one as much as you can..share them with good people. and experiance great things.. Crazy???damn straight.

i chose to live every day like ill live forever, but knowing that it could be my last day on earth..

Robin died June 27th 2011, that summer i rode every single weekend...i didnt care if it was WY, NM, CA, UT. KS, NE..if there was a trial, i was Trialin up..granted...i dont remember much of that Summer. but i met some great people, and put my foot down on rocks in alot of wonderful places..

it was the best way to help heal a broken heart for sure..my dog and me have done it and seen it for sure.

time heals all wounds, but a new outlook on life, motorcycles, and money has healed the soul for sure..

make this game fun, and share that fun with good people...they will come back and chances are..they will bring friends with them...

[lineaway]

OK I know i'm not part of your scene over there but we also suffer from small entries over here. Our club mostly only averages 50 - 60 entries per trial so it is a world wide problem.

Re your National series just a suggestion and I do mean this sincerely.

1. Would it not be possible for a company to transport bikes to all rounds then the riders could just fly there and share a hire car and accommodation ?

2. Would it not be possible for a local dealer to supply bikes on a hire basis and again riders could fly and share a hire car and accommodation ?

When I have ridden in Spain I have both flown and borrowed a bike when there and also the following year transported 6 bikes in my van while the riders flew over and we all shared the travel costs making it far more affordable.

I am given to understand internal flights and car hire in the US is supposed to be very cheap and I would of thought for a bit of advertising coverage then a deal could be struck with a carrier and a car hire company perhaps.

OK what do I know i'm just a dumb European but I am trying to offer a viable suggestion.

It is a good idea what you suggest! Our club has been doing it for years now. At one time we had over 15 riders on our national team. Two to 4 guys would trailer the bikes out and the rest would fly in. We had several corporate and individual sponsors who paid most of the fuel and we always have our own riding gear. Team New Mexico.

[jse]

My only concern with that is if Chuck was to perform on the stripper pole!

Oh cool! I'm driving out to the Ute Cup next week and will see Chuck there.

It will be like RMTA's version of the half-time show at the Super Bowl except

I sure don't want to see any wardrobe malfunctions..........

Jon