mboon Posted August 25, 2013 Report Share Posted August 25, 2013 (edited) Hi all, I have tasked myself with getting my dad's old Montesa Cota 247 running and riding again. The bike was bought years ago and spent most of it's time in his shed collecting dust. I dragged it out a few years ago and kicked it over, kicks over fine but would not start. I put it back with a promise to try get it going again. So that day came today, got it back out. Both tyres are flat and it needs some work. We are going to try get her running and riding again and then strip it down and make it look like new This is the bike in current form So checked the oil, looks OK, kicked it over a few times and everything seems to be free. I removed the HT lead and went into remove the plug... 20mm spanner? which I do not have... You can imagine looking down and just seeing the empty space where it once lived So dug out an old spark plug, put it on and kicked the bike, nothing. So went to the other Montesa Cota 247 we have and removed the coil, removed the tank and coil from this bike and replaced. The coil I fitted was the old screw tyre on top of the plug which was fun, fitted this and still the same. I have put fresh fuel in the old girl and made sure the tap was opened. While kicking you can smell the fuel. That is the original coil fitted. I have removed that one. I have loads of questions and this is the first bike I have ever worked on. This was my last project A couple questions I have straight away.... Do we need to mix the fuel? ie put lead replacement into the unleaded fuel? What oil does these bikes use? Where is the oil filter... or is there not one? Any ideas why we are not getting a spark? We are based in Somerset UK and half tempted to find a local bike guy to get her up and running and I will do the cosmetics. Anyway, any comments welcome... Interested to know what we have etc... Does the parts look original? Like I said, it is my dad's bikes... He had them back in the 70's and bought these for a reminder of his youth...mid life crisis haha Edited September 4, 2013 by mboon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadof2 Posted August 25, 2013 Report Share Posted August 25, 2013 (edited) You do need to mix oil with the fuel. I suggest shell VSX2 mixed at 150 cc of oil to 5 litres of petrol. Ordinary unleaded should be OK. Contact Sandifords at Bury in lancashire for more info. You probably need to clean the contact points and reset them at 0.4 mm. I advise replacing the condenser - you can just remove it to see if you get a spark but don't run the bike for long without it - the points will burn. Condensers fail with age and will prevent the bike sparking. It would be a good idea to flush the engine with petrol / oil mix (same as fuel) Replace the air filter - old one will probably fall to pieces. Primary drive oil ATF or 10w 30 about 300 CCs Gearbox oil EP90 - Try 600 ccs but it may only be 450ccs. Edit - may need to flush the petrol tank and you will need to strip and clean the carburettor Easi start will hepl bike start first time Give the whole bike a good spray with WD40 or contect duck oil to loosen rust and free things up Edited August 25, 2013 by dadof2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pro sport Posted August 27, 2013 Report Share Posted August 27, 2013 Well as you probably know youve got a Cota Mk4b , made between Feb 74 & June 75. You need to get yourself a flywheel puller and a clamp to hold the flywheel whilst tightning the puller , once the flywheel is off you can check the points are clean and able to move, although you cant see them open and close as they run on a cam inside the flywheel. The inspection hole in the flywheel is your only check as to the points operation. The condensor can be removed from the hot engine area and fitted up next to the coil in the cooler air under the petrol tank. Once you get a spark at the plug you need to get the timing correct ( check other threads on here as to settings) then you need to lock up the flywheel really tight again then concentrate on the carb getting a correct fuel mixture (Strawberry colour plug tip) you might have to change the needle and needle jet as i did with mine to get it running correctly,its an Amal Carb and you can get parts from Burlen Ltd. Good luck Let us know how you get on. Dave( another mid life crisis dad! ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thats_a_five Posted August 28, 2013 Report Share Posted August 28, 2013 You have gotten good input above from Dadof2 and ProSport. I strongly suggest that you put the bike on a stand with the rear wheel off the ground when you try to start it. When bikes sit for long time, clutches stick, cables bind or rust to the point where they break when used and kill switches and wiring can fail. The last thing you want is to have the bike fire up and take off across the yard into the street with either no rider or no way to get it to stop. Have fun with your project. Nice looking Escort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mboon Posted August 29, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2013 Hi Guys, thanks for the info... So do I mix the fuel as two stroke? I was under the impression that if the engine had oil it didnt need any in the fuel... which makes me think I may need to put some kind of easy start in her or something? I have had the bike in pieces and will update that later tonight. I have found both the engine numbers... can anyone tell me anything from these details? 21M18511 which is the bike above. My dad is convinced the log book states 1972? And the spares bike 21M25870 For some reason, I think this bike is the older... just by looking at photos on the net and comparing etc Thanks Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mboon Posted August 29, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2013 Right guys, An update. So I kicked the bike over and nothing... Took the lead off, put another plug on and put on the tank, kicked her over and cannot see a spark.. I noticed under the tank was a coil, so removed the tank and checked the connections on the coil, all OK. I removed the coil and replaced with the coil from the other bike which was the old style that screws into the top of the spark plug Some photos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mboon Posted August 29, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2013 While I was taking bits off I came across the engine number??? of this bike... Can anyone tell me details on this engine number please... I next removed the chain cover and checked the points by eye, all looked OK but know I need to get these looked at again Next I took the air filter off and cleaned etc So while the air filter/box was removed I thought I might as well remove this and check over and clean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mboon Posted August 29, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2013 All fitted back together I removed the plug and checked, all looked fine, gave it a bit of a clean up but didn't really need it This is the spares bike we have, can anyone tell me more about this one? And this is the engine number... Again, can anyone shed some light on this for me? age etc After all this I went to fire and nothing again. I ended up putting the original coil back in her and tried again, still the same. I am half tempted to put it into a garage and get them to make her breath again then I can start on the body. While I am talking about the body of the bike, can anyone tell me paint codes etc please and what colour items are supposed to be. ie... the air filter housing, is that the correct factory colour? if not what was...? I am going to pressure wash the old girl down and start rubbing down parts and giving a new lick of paint This is where I work my magic Anyway, thanks for looking, sorry for all the pics... I like to show plenty of detail. I was a nightmare with my Escort but was great reading for enthusiasts and for me to keep track of what I did to her. Thanks Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie chitlins Posted August 29, 2013 Report Share Posted August 29, 2013 Paint codes? Better get it running! No talk of points and condenser? Best look into those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mboon Posted August 29, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2013 Hi Charlie... no idea wgat the condenser is? Found the points... this is all really new to me. Anyone got a guide to checking/changing these items please on this bike? Thanks Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie chitlins Posted August 30, 2013 Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 A condenser is a little silver cylinder (About 1.5"x .5") with a wire coming out of it. It may be right next to the points or up by the coil. If it's by the points, many of us move them to the coil for ease of changing. It bleeds excess voltage from the points to keep them from arcing and burning and the bike won't run if it's bad. They also have a shelf life, so they can go bad from years of sitting. Points need to be set to a specific gap and timed to open at the proper time. You'll need a flywheel puller and a little gizmotron to screw into the spark plug hole to gauge piston position. This was a very dependable system but, as you're probably noticing, a bit of a pain to service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mboon Posted August 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 I accepted defeat... dropped the bike off to my mechanic. Fingers crossed it is good news Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pro sport Posted August 30, 2013 Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 (edited) Hi Mark Sorry you admitted defeat and put it into the shop for the guys to fix. As I told you a couple of days ago The 21M18--- ser No is a MK4b 247cc made in Feb to May 1975 deffo not 1972. The 21M25--- No is a late Ulf Karlson Replica 240cc Approx Mid 1978. As Charlie said youve got points/condensor problems from the bikes hanging around for so long not being used!!! The air filter boxes should be silver, Frame Black Gloss, Tank was Red gel coat Glass fibre but you can get various near matches in spray cans. Let us know how you get on once its back. Cheers Dave Edited August 30, 2013 by pro sport Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mboon Posted August 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2013 Hi guys, Thank you for the info. I love stuff like this. I will research the rep bike and see what they are all about. I had a call today and the bike is up and running. Points just needed some attention. Not bad for a 1970s bike that has sat for 5 years. I will get a update once I get on the computer. Thanks guys Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mboon Posted August 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2013 Well guys, this is the old girl running. My dad was over the moon which was nice. This has highlighted the exhaust manifold needs some work... any ideas? One happy montesa helper haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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