Was Nostop A Success Or A Failure ?

[gizza5]

I would say 20 times enduros are sold compared to trials, that's where the money comes from.

I have been telling people for years about trials being a minority sport, all you hear is that trials manufacturers should be doing this and that in reality you need bike sales. Maybe grass track has less of a following, but we will never reach the realms of Road Racing, Moto X, Enduro etc. where as said the money is

[twinshocked]

So: let's revitalise the sport by going back to the crusty rules of 25 years ago, thereby killing it for young people. Yeah right. Fricken' brilliant Mr Michaud. If we want to grow the sport we have to attract young'uns.

If Stop n Hop is the key to attracting young riders and we have been doing it for 25+ years then where the F are all the young riders?

Edited October 24, 2013 by twinshocked

[twinshocked]

Edited October 21, 2013 by twinshocked

[nigel dabster]

If Stop n Hop is the key to attracting young riders and we have been doing it for 25+ years then where F are all the young riders?

Why attack Michaud? The factories are the ones that asked the FIM for the rule change.

Attack Michaud because he was the driving force behind the change and has used every excuse to say its been a success

[baldilocks]

No Dabster the point is if stop permitted is going to attract young riders why hasn't so far ? We have fewer young riders than ever and that cant be blamed on no stop now can it ?

[gizza5]

If Stop n Hop is the key to attracting young riders and we have been doing it for 25+ years then where F are all the young riders?

Very valid point

[baldilocks]

Trials has to be viable. If Dabsters comments on enduro bike sales are valid why on earth are people making trials bikes ? Why bother sponsoring anybody ?

Trials started on adapted road bikes we may end up on adapted enduro models if its not worth making a specific trials bike. So while you all long for the happy days of stop permitted can I ask what should the FIM do if changing the rules isnt the solution to generating more sales.

[breagh]

I don't want to ask the FIM anything.

Would it not be better if trials was run by a body only interested trials?

UK based too.

Not that I'm biased.

[nigel dabster]

Trials has to be viable. If Dabsters comments on enduro bike sales are valid why on earth are people making trials bikes ? Why bother sponsoring anybody ?

Trials started on adapted road bikes we may end up on adapted enduro models if its not worth making a specific trials bike. So while you all long for the happy days of stop permitted can I ask what should the FIM do if changing the rules isnt the solution to generating more sales.

My comments are valid you only have to lok at the start of the erzberg to realise where the sales are.

People make trials bikes because they can and wish to do so, I guess sherco beta and gas gas break even at least.

We don't "long" for stop permitted we have it in our centre and anywhere else in the uk where we want to.

Stop allowed hasn't increased anything and as an objective statement tinkering with rules one way or the other at WTC will not increase sales or participation. factually its probably less riders on top route, surely we can agree rule change hasn't done any good whatso ever?

[gizza5]

Stop allowed hasn't increased anything and as an objective statement tinkering with rules one way or the other at WTC will not increase sales or participation. factually its probably less riders on top route, surely we can agree rule change hasn't done any good whatso ever?

Think what people have been saying is that for the last 'X' amount of years when stop has been allowed the numbers in the WTC has declined, now they have made it no stop will two years be a good gauge of whether it will work?

Rule change at the top level won't sell bikes, if we all wanted to ride like Toni Bou then we would all be on Montesa's?

The solution on the rule change was to encourage more people into the WTC and that may filter into National, Centre and Club level events which in turn may create bike sales, as said two years is not a good evaluation as we have only been going 12 months I think we will be having the same conversation in a years time?

Does all this change what we do on a Sunday?

[axulsuv]

Trials Scoring...(taken directly from a 1982 program for the wagner cup @ the Donner ski ranch)

" the object of observed trials is to ride a specified piece of ground with entry and exit gates and side boundaries ( known as a section)without stopping (unless balanced with both feet on the pegs with no outside support) and without touching feet to the ground (or using any other part of the body as support).

Points are given to a rider for using his feet (or other body parts) and for losing forward motion (unless balanced without support). the rider with the lowest score is the winner . Points are allocated as follows :

A clean. No points. The Competitor completes the section with no footing .

1, one point. The rider puts a foot to the ground (dabs) only once while in the section. A rider is also charged for a dab if he uses any other part of his body to maintain or regain stability or forward motion .

2,two points. The rider dabs twice while in the section .

3 , Three points. The rider dabs three or more times. Three points is the maximum score given to a rider who gets through a section successfully , even if he sits down and paddles with his feet all the way .

5 , Five points . The maximum penalty for failure to complete the section . This include stopping in the section (whether the engine is stalled or not ) or losing forward motion (unless the rider is balancing or rolling backwards with no support) . Five points are also given for running out of bounds . A A rider may request a score of 5 if he chooses not to attempt the section . (If a rider misses a section he receives 10 points in national competition or 100 points under international rules.) "

Now I have to ask , WHAT WAS WRONG WITH THOSE RULES ??? (except no mention of a time limit in section !) They were simple to understand , simple to observe , and FUN to ride !!!

And those are the rules Mr Michaud competed under ! He rode that event on a SWM ....

Just my 2 cents for the debate ...!

Glenn

[b40rt]

Trials Scoring...(taken directly from a 1982 program for the wagner cup @ the Donner ski ranch)

" the object of observed trials is to ride a specified piece of ground with entry and exit gates and side boundaries ( known as a section)without stopping (unless balanced with both feet on the pegs with no outside support) and without touching feet to the ground (or using any other part of the body as support).

Points are given to a rider for using his feet (or other body parts) and for losing forward motion (unless balanced without support). the rider with the lowest score is the winner . Points are allocated as follows :

A clean. No points. The Competitor completes the section with no footing .

1, one point. The rider puts a foot to the ground (dabs) only once while in the section. A rider is also charged for a dab if he uses any other part of his body to maintain or regain stability or forward motion .

2,two points. The rider dabs twice while in the section .

3 , Three points. The rider dabs three or more times. Three points is the maximum score given to a rider who gets through a section successfully , even if he sits down and paddles with his feet all the way .

5 , Five points . The maximum penalty for failure to complete the section . This include stopping in the section (whether the engine is stalled or not ) or losing forward motion (unless the rider is balancing or rolling backwards with no support) . Five points are also given for running out of bounds . A A rider may request a score of 5 if he chooses not to attempt the section . (If a rider misses a section he receives 10 points in national competition or 100 points under international rules.) "

Now I have to ask , WHAT WAS WRONG WITH THOSE RULES ??? (except no mention of a time limit in section !) They were simple to understand , simple to observe , and FUN to ride !!!

And those are the rules Mr Michaud competed under ! He rode that event on a SWM ....

Just my 2 cents for the debate ...!

Glenn

So if you stopped and balanced , no penalty. What mark for stopped, balanced and then put foot down ? One or five ? Still room for "interpretation"

[baldilocks]

As riders got better at balancing they did it for longer. Roll forward to uk round in the early nineties and grimbo took 7 mins to ride one section. This meant even with 7 hour time limits riders where taking a 5's to finish on time.

[nigel dabster]

As riders got better at balancing they did it for longer. Roll forward to uk round in the early nineties and grimbo took 7 mins to ride one section. This meant even with 7 hour time limits riders where taking a 5's to finish on time.

So simple solution 1 min or so per section, sorted.

[pete_scorpa3]

So simple solution 1 min or so per section, sorted.

So time limits make it simple?

The simplest solution is..... don't stop or it's a failure.