lee101 Posted September 30, 2013 Report Share Posted September 30, 2013 Hi all. Well i'll get straight to the point. Out riding last weekend, the bike seemed to stall. Now im not sure if i stalled it, or it cut out. Either way, i went to kick it over to get it going again, as usual, a not to heavy kick usually gets it going. After it didnt start the first kick, i put it down to me not kicking it hard enough, however i kicked it again and again and nothing... Now to the confusing part.. I took it back to the shed, messed about with the earth wires a bit and kicked it over. It started first kick so i put it down to a connection coming lose. Thinking nothing of it, i took it out the following day. Got down to my local practice grounds (shatterford) and went to start it up. And NOTHING. I messed about with the wiring again but couldnt get it to fire up. So away i went, back to the shed to haeva further look. Luckily for me my brother has the same bike, same year etc so i swapped parts around to try and check to see if mine were faulty. I put the regulator from mine onto his - fired up first time. I put the coil pack from mine onto his - fired up first time. Checked my spark plug on his - was fine. So i dug a bit deeper into the bad earth option before taking of the flywheel to check that. I heard a rumour of bad earth from the engine to the frame, although i was sceptical about this option i rigged up a wire with two eye connectors either end and ran one from a bolt on the clutch casing and the other end to the earth bolt where the regulator, thermostat and kill switch connects. What do you know, started up first kick. So i thoughtit must be a bad earth right? Then to my amazement i took the wire i had made off the clutch casing and gave it a kick just to see hat would happen... It started first kick... confused? So what i done next was left the eye connector on the earth bolt and snapped off the wire, just leaving the piece of metal on the earth bolt. It started up first kick again. and again and again. Not really knowing what had solved the issue having only put a piece of metal on the earth bolt i left it at that and kept starting it up throughout the week to make sure it was still working, and all was fine. So, i took it out yesterday back to shatterford and it started up fine. Bike was running great, nice and smooth and loads of grunt. All of a sudden it stalled again. I tried kicking it over and nothing again. The starange thing is, is that when i kick it then it doesnt fire up, but if i get my father-in-law to kick it then it goes first time. Although he is a lot bigger than me and gives it a very hard kick. usually when i kick it over its like a half effort kick and it fires up, not a bit boot to get it turning over. So my question is after all of this that does anybody have any ideas? because inm scratching my head trying to think of a solutuion. Bad earth still? Stator rewind? Just confused as to what it could be because it ran fine for about 2 - 3 hours yesterday and now its back to being a pain to start. I phoned gasgas and they said carb or stator but it ran fine yesterday up untill it stalled again. I can get the stator off my brothers bike and try that but wanted to ask here first before pulling the fly wheels off both of them. Any help is greatly appreciated as i wanted to do a trial this weekend but cant it i cant get it started. Also if anyone knows the colour wires to test the stator output would help saving me get the stators out and swapping them over. Cheers, Lee! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadof2 Posted September 30, 2013 Report Share Posted September 30, 2013 (edited) I suggest you take the stator off and look for the wires to the trigger coil (small black thingy) and the wires to the ignition source coil. The soure coul is the coil with the finer windings than the fan or lights coils. On an 07 I can't remember if the trigger coil in on the stator or separate outside the flywheel. I know on the earlier pros it was integral with the stator but by 09 it had moved to a separate item outside the flywheel. Cheers Edited September 30, 2013 by dadof2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee101 Posted September 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2013 cheers dadof2 i will check that if nobody suggests a quicker solution. What should i be looking for on those wires if it was faulty? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lineaway Posted September 30, 2013 Report Share Posted September 30, 2013 You have a few things against you. My sons bike is the same for me. He starts it easily, I have to get it all right or it will not go. Try moving the kicker forward one tooth on the shaft. You also need it to be top dead center when you kick it. Our bike started doing this after it got hot when the fan went. I`m assuming we lost some compression and could use a fresh piston and rings. If your bike can be started by someone else, then it is not an electrical problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee101 Posted September 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2013 hi lineaway. While i take on board what you are saying, i see no problem with the kickstart itself. I have had no trouble kicking it, there is loads of compression and everything points to an electircal problem at the moment as im not getting a spark every kick apart from when its kicked hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lineaway Posted September 30, 2013 Report Share Posted September 30, 2013 Just a thought. It sounds like the issue is when hot. I would try your brothers coil again, but give it a good 30 minute ride. Still interesting that your father in law can get it to go. So what ever the problem, is not completely broke. Which makes it very hard to find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee101 Posted September 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2013 Tell me about it. Rattling my brain trying to work it out. Will do some more testing tonight and post back. If anyone has some ideas please throw them at me as it could be something so simple im missing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee101 Posted September 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2013 (edited) Just got back from work and kicked it over. It started up second kick with the choke on. I then cut the engine and tried kicking it over again but nothing. If I was the stator would I fire up at all? Any ideas? :S Edited September 30, 2013 by lee101 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee101 Posted October 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 Hi guys. So i had a little fettle last night and still couldnt get it started up. I ran the earth wire that i made from the engine to the frame again and it didnt fire up. I have now noticed there is quite a lot of play in the kick start lever? Also it makes a nasty clicky sound sometimes when its being kicked. Could this mean the shaft has worn and im not getting a proper kick to turn the engine over? Or is it still something electrical that i'm missing? Cheers, Lee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sting32 Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 (edited) Lee without pictures, and history of the bike (what all you have played with, or previous owner for that matter...) I would keep optimistically like to say you got bad ground somewhere. But it could be more than that. Now there are "anecdotal" stories everywhere, but here's a couple I cant say are "normal" but possible? I had an 07 250 in my shop that failed to start on my 2nd attempt after buying it, which happened (as the kid I had bought it, I had went and got it for, was on his way to come see it at my place). I was nuts, disconnected the kill switch (cut wires off' I needed to put real kill switch on anyhow, take off the light switch crap, still nothing. looked for ground wire problem, everything seemed good. last thing I did was, I took flywheel off, to see if there was moisture and corrosion anywhere in there. there was NONE. But dad reached down and grabbed the stator not really assuming anything, but he noticed instantly that it was LOOSE. I tightened them 3 screws up, with loc-tite blue, and haven't had any issue since. I have heard/read on forums that the Voltage regulator can go bad, I forget what years that is prominent, if that happens you might not get electricity to the electronic ignition box. I have had a spark plug that would fire outside the cylinder, but not when installed in the past. I've also in a 2007 200cc, had a spark plug that would ONLY RUN up to about 2000 RPMs, sputter badly (almost tossed me over the bars). I was sure it was carb, but changed plug after dicking with carb 5 times, then it ran fine. What you got to do is figure out a way (friends or dealer/mechanic) to eliminate the "possible" failures, with known good. Edited October 1, 2013 by sting32 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lineaway Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 Seems I just had to pull the plug cap on my son`s a while back. Just had to cut it back to some fresh wire. Fast easy check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee101 Posted October 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 (edited) Hi. Last night I removed te clutch and had a look at the kickstart workings. Bart gear was knackered aswell as the idle gear. Ordered new ones today from gasgas so should be here tomorrow. Have got all the bits of metal out and the basket looks in mint condition. Hoping that it just wasnt getting enough of a kick to get it going. Ill post back when it's all back together and see what happens. I had already done all the above, snipping the HT lead to get better connections but still had nothing. Put parts from a working 07 250 on mine such as the regulator, coil pack and still wouldn't start. Edited October 2, 2013 by lee101 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thats_a_five Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 I have not read much about what you have done on the fuel system. When it doesn't start, is the plug wet or dry? Have you checked the bowl for water or dirt? Does the tank vent work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee101 Posted October 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 Update. Have put the new Bart gear and idler gear in. The kick is better but still won't fire up. I have also took the carb apart ad cleaned it all thoroughly and still won't fire up. Getting stressed with it now as I havnt got a clue what it can be and I want to ride!!! Any more ideas out there? Cheers, Lee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee101 Posted October 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 Another update. Just checked the spark again and it is sparking. I've taken the exhaust off to have a look up into the piston and I can see "slight" score marks. It's a new s3 piston and I had the barrel re played about 2 months ago. It's got loads of compression so I'm sure it's not siezed. I had it going about an hour ago but it's just spluttering out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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