To Trials Masters - Set Up Event Difficultly - To How Many Points?

[old trials fanatic]

Reading between the lines here it appears that riders in north America expect and appreciate a more challenging, higer scoring Trial (or perhaps we just don't ride as well), than those across the pond.

If I finish a Trial with ten points or less I consider it a poorly set event and don't feel that I got my moneys worth (I know I'm not that good a rider).

The standard I was taught many years ago is one point per section ridden from the winning rider in each class, except the lowest class, Novice, since they are the only class without the option of moving down a class. We typically ride 24-30 sections at an event.

You may well be right. Over here we tend to average 4 laps of 10 sections on a closed course so that's 40 sections in effect. I can assure you though if I took 40 marks off the winner of each class there wouldn't be any entries at the next Trial so yes I agree the riders over in these parts do seem to want easier trials.

I remember when I started trialing in 1967 and all the way through the 70's you regularly dropped 120 marks to win a Novice award and riders just accepted that as the way it was. then again we did all ride just the one route then whether you were Mick Andrews or a complete no hoper like me. Things change people and their aspiration's change too I suppose you just have to know your potential audience and play to their preferences which ever side of the pond you are on

[rabie]

I have had riders that have recently moved up a class tell me after the event "That (insert crazyish obstacle here) in that section was gnarly, but I never would have thought I could ride that if it wasn't put in a section"

that's ***my*** whole problem with "practice", i'll never do anything hard enough to test/push me, i'll only do stuff i've done before. if a section is laid out, you walk it and then see others ride it, see it can be done (hopefully) and then i'll atempt it and improve upon it.

[motovita]

You may well be right. Over here we tend to average 4 laps of 10 sections on a closed course so that's 40 sections in effect. I can assure you though if I took 40 marks off the winner of each class there wouldn't be any entries at the next Trial so yes I agree the riders over in these parts do seem to want easier trials.

I finished the Trial last Sunday with a score in the 60s, the winning score in my class was in the 50s (it was raining and extra slick), and felt good about it. I had 6 cleans in 27 sections, that's about as good as it gets for me.

I'm kinda old and gimpy and don't ride for the win. If I can finish the event with a respectable score and a few cleans I'm happy.

Edited October 3, 2013 by motovita

[telecat]

My Son was reminiscing the other day about winning his Youth class on 90-120 with the Trial Winner on 25-40. And we are talking Ben Hemingway class riders there. The ideal I was told when we started was your winner on a 36-45 section Trial should be about 20. That was back in the early 2000's. I'd also say that if you have a 12 section Trial 3 should be taking marks off your best riders and 3 should be able to be cleaned by everybody. Then just make the other challenging but not dangerous with regard to who you think is going to turn up. These Days we are seeing a Very Easy course, Easy course and Medium difficultly course with a Super Hard variation on the top course for the Good riders.

[stpauls]

I am sorry to have write this, but I have been to yet another trial today, where, IMHO the sections were poorly thought out and many sections were too severe for the average Novice, the Sportsman was more like Expert and some parts of Expert were an (serious) accident waiting to happen! I spoke to a group riding the Sportsman route who thought that it was ridiculous and were going home after doing the twelve sections once, rather than doing them three times. Others were heard to say that they would not bother with this club's meetings in the future. So, remember that if the sections are too hard then people will not come back to the next event. So, organisers, please think about differentiation and severity. Think carefully and be realistic about your expectations and the challenges that you are setting, especially for the new/less able/older rider, and for those who just want to have a bit of fun riding the Novice sections. Because, if you don't then riders will become disillusioned and leave the sport, then the sport will become even less popular.

This was my 46th trial in the past 12 months, so I can make some comparisons between trials organised by different clubs in the south west of England I consider that seven of these had the majority/most of the Novice sections set at an inappropriately severe level of difficulty. .

Elsewhere in this thread "Zippy" makes a useful generalization about challenge and severity of sections for the different levels at trial meetings. It is from the USA but is equally applicable to the UK. I have repeated these useful observations below:

Quote from Zippy:

As far as severity goes (and this is just a generalization)
Beginner = In the start and find their way to the end, usually a turn or two (class is for learning section markers, etc.)
Novice = couple of turns and a small log or two, all can be ridden without touching the clutch,
Intermediate = medium logs, tighter turns, some clutch control needed, turns on hill.
Sportsman = most difficult half of Intermediate and easiest half of Advanced sections.
Advanced = Big obstacles with plenty of run up/out and places to put feet, tight turns (hopping not necessary but makes it easier), steep hill climbs, etc. .
Expert = Big obstacles hardly any run up/out with less spots to foot, tight and super tight turns, and a couple of sections that are "Screw em they are the top guys and can't get any higher in class" make it hard!

So, organisers please think carefully about your expectations and the challenges that you are setting, especially for new/less able/older or, the rider who just wants to have fun, riding the Novice sections.

[rob214]

stpauls, you are one lucky guy, if i ride all the events within an 8 hour drive, i could only do 12 a year. and that's 2 per weekend. i would love to be able to compete more. there just aren't that many event's in the southeast US, and i don't think in the whole US really.

section layout is a tough chore, i've been a part of laying out events. people complain all the time, too easy to hard. i don't have any answers.

rob

[breagh]

stpauls, you are one lucky guy, if i ride all the events within an 8 hour drive, i could only do 12 a year. and that's 2 per weekend. i would love to be able to compete more. there just aren't that many event's in the southeast US, and i don't think in the whole US really.

section layout is a tough chore, i've been a part of laying out events. people complain all the time, too easy to hard. i don't have any answers.

rob

This sounds grim, I can't imagine what the population of the SE USA is and what you're saying is there's next to no trials?

We're spoiled,sure some of the riders down south will have a choice of 4 or more trials most weekends within an hours drive.

Locally we have a trial within 90 minutes most weekends, often 2.

All this doesn't help you,but I've found that running events that cater for fun /clubman riders seems to bring in entrys and new riders.

Two routes,so the sections don't look like a bag of markers have exploded on the hillside.

Keep it simple ,though you will have to accept you will lose riders that get better..

We've done this for 5 years and pick up new members most trials.

[motovita]

(QUOTE) I am sorry to have write this, but I have been to yet another trial today, where, IMHO the sections were poorly thought out and many sections were too severe for the average Novice, the Sportsman was more like Expert and some parts of Expert were an (serious) accident waiting to happen! I spoke to a group riding the Sportsman route who thought that it was ridiculous and were going home after doing the twelve sections once, rather than doing them three times. Others were heard to say that they would not bother with this club's meetings in the future. So, remember that if the sections are too hard then people will not come back to the next event. So, organisers, please think about differentiation and severity. Think carefully and be realistic about your expectations and the challenges that you are setting, especially for the new/less able/older rider, and for those who just want to have a bit of fun riding the Novice sections. Because, if you don't then riders will become disillusioned and leave the sport, then the sport will become even less popular.

So, organisers please think carefully about your expectations and the challenges that you are setting, especially for new/less able/older or, the rider who just wants to have fun, riding the Novice sections. (QUOTE)

Did you discuss your concerns with the marshal or other club representatives? As many Trials as you ride, I'm sure that you have perspective that most riders don't.

I don't enjoy riding a Trial that has been set too easy any more than one that is set too hard. Only the top and bottom classes can't go up or down, respectively, in difficulty, so it's consistency that matters most.

Edited September 15, 2014 by motovita

[biffsgasgas]

Lately Zippy and I have been looking at the "point taking opportunities" in relation to severity. When setting up an event we generally ask what the section or sections before that one look like before and after theirs. Let's give them (them being the riders of our events) a challenge that's fun, challenging, and exciting but not to the point where they feel obligated to quit.

So point taking opportunities are considered in laying out a section. What that opportunity is like for a beginner is different than an expert of course. Do you have enough opportunity to get a clean as you do a five? Does every section have to be at the maximum opportunity for a rider to get a point. Does a section have to be designed to take points or can it just be fun?

We have been asking ourselves that over the past few years and have had some mixed results. For the experts and other riders we have been trying to help them get their moment in the spot light. Every one wants to feel like a hero sometimes and we usually have a good turn out of non trials riders in our events so we try and give some spectacular obstacles for those who want to showcase the skill. It doesn't get points but it sure gets people talking and interested. Stagger your section severity levels. Hard easy hard easy hard easy.

One thing is consistent is that you can't make everyone happy. My sign of a good section (and we allow this in our club) is when a rider who is done riding for the day wants to come back and try your section again or wants to try the next level up.

--Biff

[motovita]

Stagger your section severity levels. Hard easy hard easy hard easy

--Biff

I was taught by the old timers, and I'm now an old timer, to orchestrate section difficulty by starting and ending the loop with easier sections and tapering up to, and down from, the most difficult sections in the middle of the loop.

I've found that the beginning of the loop is a good place for those spectacular, but not necessarily point taking, expert sections as there always seem to be the most spectators at the first sections.

Edited September 15, 2014 by motovita

[michael_t]

Great reading!

Here in Nova Scotia I try to put on 3 events a year the next closest events are in Quebec (about a 10hr drive).

I have never been to an event that I haven't helped organize. Luckily there are riders locally that have been at events so they where able to help me get started. I also had a talented Quebec rider come down to give me pointers for my first event (5? years ago). The fact that I am typically the worst rider at the events helps but it is really easy to make sections to tough (especially when you are setting advanced sections but can only ride novice). Reading posts like this one is always very helpful in my quest to grow the sport here in Canada .

My next event is this weekend, I will go for 8 sections 3 or 4 laps depending on the day with 2 lines Novice and Advanced. I always try to find out who will be there and with only 15 or so riders typically showing up I have an idea of what will work but really I should have 4 difficulty levels Beginner, Novice, Intermediate, and Advanced to cover the current riders but it is just too much work for this volunteer to pull off.

Cheers,

Michael T.