bantamjames Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 Hi All, I'm looking for some information on what is believed to be a Cheetah Trials bike fitted with with a Greeves headed, Villiers Engine. We recently acquired it from a man looking to sell off his late fathers collection. Me and my father are normally Bantam tinkerers by default but couldn't pass up on the opportunity to purchase what we originally believed to be a Greeves Anglian or something similar.I was wondering if anyone has ever owned one, ridden one, seen one in action or just knows a bit more about the brand than me. It was fitted with a battered metal tank with no badging, leading to the initial confusion but a spare fiberglass tank with Cheetah hand painted on it was included. As a new member of the fiberglass tank brigade i was looking for a definitive view on how usable it is with high ethanol content petrol used locally to me and any workarounds people could suggest would be much appreciated. The bike starts albeit leaking petrol from both taps and with a great deal of smoke billowing from the pipe of course but i think it is not particularly far off being MOT-able once the inclement issues have been addressed. Before we can get that ball rolling though I need to identify the engine and frame number. There is a number located on each side of the crank case between the mounting lugs which seem to differ. A Frame number is yet to be located and i'm looking for a more ingenious idea for is placement than i have come up with so far. It is neither on the engine mounting lug or anywhere on the neck from what i can see. Is it possible that the frame number was on a plate rather than directly stamped on and if this is the case can anyone suggest a work around for claiming the V5. The number is recognised on the DVLA site but no V5 was included. I know it's a bit of an essay as i'm brimming with questions but thanks in advance to anyone who responds, Kind Regards, James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon v8 Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 You have a PM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nelly1 Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 fastest land mammal boom 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 The Cheetah is a nice bike to ride with a more modern feel than you'd expect from a late 60s bike. Chassis is stable and it turns well without having any nasty traits that need 'modernising'. It feels comfortable riding either non-stop or stop/go balancing using the clutch/brakes. Footrest position is high but footrest positioning is personal preference anyway. Villiers 250 is a good engine but there are so many variants... In 'normal' or 'proper' trials trim they're more than adequate for classic trials or B route in modern trials. Things like suspension and brakes are going to depend on what's fitted but with decent units, no geometry changes are necessary to make them work well (my opinion only, obviously, but based upon having ridden one) I've had no problem with old fibreglass tanks using Shell V-power and that includes leaving the fuel in it and not draining. Obviously, some other petrol brands aren't so kind on them. I'll ask someone who has one about the chassis number. Villiers engine numbers are a different matter and it's probably best to speak to Simon at Nametab if no-one on here can help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 (edited) Chassis number should be stamped on the headstock. Is the frame chrome? They were all chrome as far as I know You don't need the engine number to apply for the V5 - The V62 form you use only asks for the chassis number I think. Plus £25 fee. Edited October 3, 2013 by woody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bantamjames Posted October 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 Here's a picture of the little thing for your delectation http://postimg.org/image/s4plfv4ud/ Thanks Woody, i take it you have had a decent amount of experience with Cheetahs then, I'm in two minds what to do with it; leave it as is with a throrough polish giving it a bit of character or tarting up to perfection. I don't really know anything about the values of machines like this and i wouldn't want to ruin the "original" condition but it would be nice to have the frame powder-coated. They're might be the reminence of some chrome underneath the paint but it certainly hasn't been chrome finish alone for a while. It does however have an interesting scratching on the bottom of the tank saying the paint job is by John Antill if that makes any difference. It is great to hear you have good experience with fibreglass tanks as it is much nicer than tatty alloy thing that was included with it. Thankfully there is a Shell nearby so we'll test that this weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 (edited) Not a lot of experience no, a mate has one which I've had a few rides on and it has a nice feel to the chassis. Impressive for a 1968 bike. But... the picture you've posted doesn't look like his and the tank with Cheetah on it is too big for something that would have been fitted to a trials bike. Footrests don't look right either. Obviously the picture doesn't show all of the bike so difficult to tell, but I'm not sure it's a Cheetah See if you can get some pictures of both sides and with the tank and seat off. I think Westyfield has a Cheetah so I guess he could tell you for sure Edited October 3, 2013 by woody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted October 4, 2013 Report Share Posted October 4, 2013 Yes Westyfield has one and if I see Andy soon I will ask him. The Cheetah frame kits were very popular in the day and were made for Villiers engines and Tiger Cub although Tiger Cub ones are very rare nowadays. Interestingly you could also order the kit c/w a disc front brake but this was way way before the technology improved and was horrendous. Agree with Woody something doesn't look right plus the engine is probably a bitsa as it looks like a Greeves square barrel which is ok but the head looks like a Greeves Challenger which is not so good but easily rectified as square heads are readily available second hand or new. Would need to see better shots of the frame etc but if you look in Don Moreleys book there are plenty of Cheetah shots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattylad Posted October 4, 2013 Report Share Posted October 4, 2013 There was an article in a UK magazine, cant remember exactly which but could have been CDB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2stroke4stroke Posted October 4, 2013 Report Share Posted October 4, 2013 (edited) The Morley book will be definitive and, while it's a long time since i saw a photo of a Cheetah, I seem to remember thinking that the tank looked quite large. There may have been an SSDT tank of course for in the old days the Regs demanded a 90 mile fuel range. Also, was there not an ISDT version? Though the extended brake pedal and big chainguard would indicate that the bike has been "roadified" at some point. Edited October 4, 2013 by 2stroke4stroke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cvgmmartin Posted October 4, 2013 Report Share Posted October 4, 2013 The angle of the photo distorts the size of the tank and seat making them look much bigger than they really are in relation to the rest of the bike. What you can see of the subframe and the frame tube under the seat look similar to the picture in Don Morley's book, the exhaust pipe (though not the silencer) is also similar. As others have mentioned, it needs better pictures and more than just one to accurately determine what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon v8 Posted October 4, 2013 Report Share Posted October 4, 2013 The article was in issue 17 of CDB,some nice colour pics of both Villiers and Cub engined bikes. James,I'm sorry my plan didnt work,but all is not lost,you may be able to pick up the frame number from original entries in the local records offices,your reg is a North London one from a quick search.As I said I'll be seeing a Cheetah owner tomorrow,I'll ask him where the frame number is on his bike and if its stamped or on a plate etc.Or failing that I can probably get hold of Bob Gollner through our club.Any chance you can post up some better pics ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bantamjames Posted October 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 Right lads, sorry for the radio silence, i've been away from the house and sadly to the garage as well. I have included some more photos to try and give you guys a better look at it. The quality is not better than before as it was dark before i got home but i will endeavor to get it out and get a proper picture as soon as possible. Ah yes about the frame, the person we bought it off had another frame, a chrome example. Is this more likely to be the correct one? The owner didn't know too much as he was selling off his fathers stuff. I'll try and get in contact with him about possibly swapping or it looks like i'm going to end up with another frame. http://tinypic.com/r/2yxj02d/5 http://tinypic.com/r/2gtp1ty/5 http://tinypic.com/r/rrm9uc/5 http://tinypic.com/r/2eflx8j/5 http://tinypic.com/r/1z1sgtc/5 http://tinypic.com/r/sfe90p/5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon v8 Posted October 7, 2013 Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 I saw the Cheetah owner I know on saturday,he told me the frame should definately be stamped on the headstock.He couldnt remember which side,I also think they were all chromed,so sounds like you dont have the right frame at the moment.I will be seeing him again soon,so if there are any detail shots you need let me know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axulsuv Posted October 8, 2013 Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 Get the other frame or at least check it out , great project / history either way !... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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