firedfromthecircus Posted November 13, 2013 Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 Anyone read the TTRG report? Some interesting numbers in it, that's for sure. Who's first with their thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Posted November 13, 2013 Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 For those having a WTF moment, documents attached. The internet doesn't start and end with Facebook... The Trial Reform Group - Scottish Trials v4.13.11.2013.pdf TTRG-FAQs.pdf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big john Posted November 13, 2013 Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 (edited) Thank you very much Andy for posting up the documents on Trials Central produced by The Trials Reform Group - Scotland. I will read with interest what riders and club folk think on here, of this fairly comprehensive and in-depth assessment of the current trials scene in Scotland. The report is not one that governing bodies really like to see being done, but the group felt that matters had been dragging on too long and it was time for a real discussion document to be produced. I have been asked to act as 'Media Spokesperson' for the group and they can be contacted by e-mail, if required on: thetrialsreformgroup@outlook.com The group are very interested to have any feedback and answer any questions from Scottish based trials enthusiasts via their e-mail facility. Big John Edited November 13, 2013 by big john Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Posted November 13, 2013 Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 I have no affiliation or bias towards any organisation. To quote Groucho Marx "I wouldn't join any club who'd have me as a member". I am aware of "rumblings" behind the scenes that have been going on for some time. However, my thoughts, from the outside looking in: It's clearly a well thought out and put together document and the figures, if correct, certainly seem to stack up. From a credibility perspective, those behind this should not hide behind anonymity. If the report is accurate, true and in the best interests of the sport in Scotland then stand up and be counted otherwise it could be seen by some as just an anonymous anti-SACU rant. I know at least two of those behind this and I know it's not just a rant, but then I'm not everybody... The SACU should, of course, be given full opportunity to put their side of the story to this and any proposals they have to rectify the identified issues. Journalistic neutrality and all that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapshot 3 Posted November 13, 2013 Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 Anyone read the TTRG report? Some interesting numbers in it, that's for sure. Who's first with their thoughts? Thoughts.. initially .. the numbers are more than interesting, Why can the SACU not provide trials at the same prices the ACU can?? The SACU are afiliated to the ACU under the label of a "Centre", why should Scottish riders not ride under the same rules?? In these days of austerity the SACU should be doing everything possible make the sport as affordable as possible for everybody no matter the bikesport! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabie Posted November 13, 2013 Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 briefly from my perspective (a very long way south) why does your "centre" (from my perspective and the above documents it's what the SACU appears to be) need to hire 4 full time members of staff if it is only a "centre". worst ways a 40 hour week is £12.3K per year so you have to clear a lot of money. also out lot down here have stopped send stewards to trials (what happens? results posted afterwards so no protests) so more costs cut. each "centre" gets to chose its own funding method, we've picked a per rider basis so if you have a trial with just 6 riders you haven't got to clear any fixed overhead. obviously there a certain differences for scots law compared to what the ACU covers (but then again there must be diffrences for channel island and IOM, hey the IOM is a centre) NB these are my own personally observations, not the views of the SEC ACU, Sidcup, or anyone else Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firedfromthecircus Posted November 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2013 If the figures are correct (and I'm sure they are) then there is a massive disparity between the costs involved between the three governing bodies. Why is an SACU trials licence five times the cost of an ACU one? The costs only start to become comparable if a rider rides in more than 25 events a year. The fewer events you ride in the higher the disparity. The document showed the rider costs (going to the governing body) for 10 events. For 5 events it looks even worse! £32.50 for ACU and SACU £65. I agree with Andy in that the SACU should be given a full opportunity to defend/explain their position. I think most people would like to hear that. I have a couple of questions though. Are Scottish riders allowed to join the ACU? Are Scottish clubs allowed to join the ACU? Will the ACU allow us to pretend we are in Yorkshire as the AMCA does? lol I got the impression (rightly or wrongly) from the document that TTRG are suggesting that a move to the ACU would be prudent for Scottish clubs and riders. Since the costs involved with the AMCA are lower still, would that not be the best place to take our business? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midlife Posted November 14, 2013 Report Share Posted November 14, 2013 Scottish riders can join the acu aslong as they have an Engish postal address .Scottish clubs cant join the acu. This difference in costs has been going on for at least 20 years, at that time i was going mx and you could race at Brampton for £16 and up here it was £25 the prize money was the same. A group of us tried to run a mx on my land under the acu to keep the entry fee down but the sacu put a stop to it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2stroke4stroke Posted November 14, 2013 Report Share Posted November 14, 2013 Make that 40 years George. Going back to the 60's the AMCA always seemed, despite its title, to be a more professional outfit than the ACU, with staff to handle entries for the MX (which was their main sphere of activity though they did trials too) if I remember correctly. And while the ACU had its head in the sand the AMCA was busy buying land to use as MX courses. Now that really paid off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big john Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 The TTR Group has asked me to point out that a further document has been released at 7 pm on 15th November. Hopefully someone on TC admin can post it for the benefit of this website users? Big John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapshot 3 Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 As attached The Trials Reform Group - 15 - 11 -2013.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big john Posted November 16, 2013 Report Share Posted November 16, 2013 Update on the situation for Trials Central users Basically the 'MC Federation' has approached the group and produced figures to add to those released in the original report. This makes it fair as they are a fairly new sporting governing body, mainly but not exclusively, Motocross based. They do cover trials. The report has now been widely circulated to not just clubs, but a significant number of competitors of both SACU and AMCA affiliation. They have received copies and it is being quietly digested by most, but of course the 'keyboard warrior' fraternity on facebook are making allegations that this is simply a 'crusade' or a 'personal vendetta' against a specific governing body. This is not the case. This incorrect supposition merely detracts for the main aim, which was to show how each governing body charges fees to 'manage' the sport of Trials specifically in Scotland. A snap-shot of where Scottish Trials is right now in effect across now 4 UK based governing bodies. I can reveal that a small, but significant proportion of one of the governing bodies affiliated clubs have been discussing recently plans to defect to another organisation or indeed organisations! The discussion document purpose was to cause people to think before taking action - that was all! In effect a 'stop & think' message! It was designed to make them think about the long-term effects and potential ramifications of which they are manyfold. If clubs want to move affiliation, the TTRG can do absolutely nothing to stop it - because the members of the respective clubs will decide. I will keep readers of Trials Central posted of any further developments. In the meantime, enjoy trials, whichever banner you fly under! Big John 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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